Competitive General Discussion
 

Got any quick questions you want to bring up or a single Pokemon you want to have evaluated? Then this is your place! This will be the main thread for competitive discussion. Just be sure to keep these guidlines in mind:

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-All Battle/Trade requests must go here: http://victoryroad.net/showthread.ph...393#post270393
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I suppose this could also be considered a Support Thread. Any questions related to competitive battling are allowed here.

Well I actually do have a battle request trade request Pokémon I need help with. So much help that I'd like competitive battler assistance. Yesterday I EV trained my Timid Keldeo with 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, and 6 HP all the way to level 100. It currently has Secret Sword and Scald, but I don't know what other 2 moves I should put on it. So like... do you have any suggestions? Edit: An item, too. I'm really bad with items and I don't know what I should go with.

Why Scald? You're running a Sweeper Keldeo. You'd be better off with a more powerful Water attack, like Surf or Hydro Pump.
Also, I would put up Calm Mind. It's got pretty good bulk.

As for that last move...Maybe Hidden Power...
What's your Keldeo's hidden power?

Also, Life Orb is usually common on sweepers.

I'd choose Surf over Hydro Pump, it's got more accuracy and PP. I dunno, I just really really like Scald. And I'm strongly against Calm Mind, it's got a low IV in its defenses, like almost nonexistent. I didn't mind, since I was only looking for Speed and Sp. Atk, maybe HP (4 hours of constant SRs tired me out). My Keldeo's HP is Grass, and I don't see how that'd help at all. But the Life Orb I might take into consideration, considering my 30 HP IV.

I do believe that you should at least give Calm Mind into consideration. 91/90/90 is pretty good bulk.
Keldeo doesn't have the greatest movepool, unfortunately.
Hidden Power Grass could have at least a surprise factor.

Keldeo has a pretty limited Special moveset. (I'm a bit surprised it doesn't get Ice Beam) Your immediate options are Secret Sword, Hidden Power, and Surf/Hydro Pump. (Scald might be a good option if you want to try your luck with burn hax). I usually see Keldeo have Hidden Power Ghost or Bug, or better type coverage. HP Ghost deals with Psychic and Ghost types, while HP Bug deals with Psychic and Grass types. As for the last move option, you could always try Icy Wind (?) if you want an Ice move, or you may even want to try Calm Mind.

Come to think of it... Calm Mind and Scald is a good combination since it can make Keldeo both a Physical wall from Scald causing a burn and a Special wall from Calm Mind boosting SpDef. The only problem is that Keldeo won't have a solid way of healing itself. In my opinion, I think Leftovers would be preferrable.

When I said low defenses, I meant both Defense and Sp. Def barely scrape the 200s. Defense is at 190 and Special Defense is at 188. I'd get easily destroyed in one hit, and with a Life Orb I'd only be able to get in one attack. I know of Keldeo's small movepool, that's why I was trying to find some way around it, but I couldn't. It learns way too omany physical attacks. :I And the only use I could see for HP Grass is against other water types, but I don't even know how much power it has.

Hmm... Life Orb is a given, so keep it as your item. As for the moves, switch Scald with Surf. Surf has more power and is more reliable than Hydro Pump. If you want to use Hydro Pump, then you might as well use Focus Blast instead of Secret Sword, although I don't recommend that. Calm Mind is needed. While its Sp. Atk is good, a +1 is always appreciated. Maybe his Sp. Def IV isn't good, but you won't need it as much anyway. If you use Keldeo against a Pokémon that you know would switch out, then you get a free boost for the Sp. Atk. As for the last move, that Hidden Power is useless, as Secret Sword will do more damage than HP to most Water-types. I would say the best move to use in this case is Substitute. You can evade crippling statuses and boost with Calm Mind multiple times. Fighting and Water have very few resistances.

To Reuniclus: I'm not sure if it's worth the burn hax, (I still don't consider burn from scald Hax), that's better for things that do have a reliable recovery move. (Like Vaporeon).
Icy Wind is a pretty good option, actually. I agree with you on this, Reun.

But you intrigue me with the Scald/Calm Mind idea. I'd love to see that in action.

A Sub/Calm Mind? That would actually work. This is probably a good idea, Turt. Give SoT's idea a try.
Keldeo has pretty good speed and bulk, so it's at least worth a shot.

Thanks Suicune, Spirit, and Kylce. I think I've finally decided what I'm gonna do with it. As for that Scald/Calm Mind wall tactic, I think I'll save that for my second Keldeo. I kept a second one just in case~
Yeah, the Sub/Calm Mind thing made me think. I'll settle with that one.

Glad we could be of service. Anything else we can help with?

Well I guess... with my Genesect that does not exist yet. But I know for one thing that it'll be Timid and utilize on of the Drives. It has good defense and only 1 weakness, so I'm trying to see what I can do with that. It'll definitely have a water move of some sort, since all Fire types (Reshiram as the only exception) are weak to Water. But I don't know if I want to balance out the EVs or the other moves I'll give it.

Well just in case you don't know, Genesct has found a new home the uber tier. However if you plan on using Genesect in ubers, then great! You might want to start with a Choice Scarf instead of the drives. Choice Scarf makes Genesect an excellent sweeper/revenge killer.

Disregarding that it is in the Uber tier. If you caught a Genesect at the normal level that you can, could it actually be trainer to have a good spread and be great in battle? Because I have looked at him and he doesn't seem like a good Pokemon. It's signature move just cripples it; It can't uses an item because the move is depending on it. So, like have you used it competitively that actually worked.

I've been wondering this for a while, but is the Custap Berry banned from all competitive play?

From what I've seen, it's not released in Gen V and has only been in about 3 or 4 events in Gen IV, so it would be banned since it's not supposed to exist. But when it is, I'm pretty sure it would be allowed since it's one use, and not chanced like with the Quick Claw. It would be interesting for those slow Sturdy guys.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot about the Genesect thing. :P It doesn't matter to me that it's Uber, I just train Pokémon that I like. And when I train legendaries, I like taking advantage of its special abilities, like Griseous Orb on Giratina, so I'd like to keep the drives. Considering I only have 1 Genesect, I'd like to go with the best sounding choice, so I don't know if I wanna shoot for the Scarf just yet.

To Reuniclus: It's still unreleased to my knowledge, so I would say it is banned. Once it's released, I would say it won't be banned, since it is still one use, like Turt said.

Um. Have you ever seen or went against a Genesect? They are massive! Give that mecha a Choice Scarf, and you got yourself one hell of a sweeper! They only have one weakness, like Scizor and that is fire. It also has a pretty well covered movepool too. Which is why it was moved to the Uber tier :P

I've always seen Scizor as more of a threat than Genesect. Swords Dance + Bullet Punch is more dangerous IMO, but then again, I've never fought a Genesect before. They could be more powerful than I give them credit for.

The Genesect I've fought will wreck you given the chance.
Although I have found more use personally with a Technician Scizor.

I know of Scizor and its capabilities (And the overused Bullet Punch strategy, even by the PWT people) but I've just never liked it that much as a Pokémon. Maybe when playing Melee, but that's it. I've always like Scyther more, but I don't even know what I could do with that. :/

I chose Genesect because it's one of the few legendaries I actually like enough to consider training (Celebi? Naah. Deoxys? I'd play around with its formes. Dialga? Cool time shooters.) and I'd actually like to test it out on other people. Besides, those cassettes interest me.

I've recently made a stally Mawile set, could someone critique it for me?

Mawile @ Leftovers
Nature:Impish
EVs: 255 HP / 255 Def
Ability: Intimidate
-Sucker Punch
-Super Fang
-Toxic
-Protect

What tier are you going to use it in?

All tiers, pretty much (except uber :P). I think the only problem I see in my set is that Mawile can be taunted easily to stop it from using Toxic or Protect.

I think you could squeeze either substitute or pain split in there somewhere, but the main problem is still taunt...

If you wanted to get crazy with the set (and I mean border line insane), I would suggest

Mawile @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 58 Sp. Def
Ability: Intimidate
-Stockpile
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Super Fang

Again, Mawile's speed is atrocious. So taunt will be the biggest threat to mawile. It will also be crucial to utilize your knowledge of your opponents team to make the appropriate move during a switch or other equally opportune moment. With the very little Sp.Def investment, mawile could actually take some special attacks, with 1 stockpile up of course.

Mawile @ Leftovers
Nature:Impish
EVs: 255 HP / 255 Def
Ability: Intimidate
-Sucker Punch
-Super Fang
-Toxic
-Protect

If you are going to use this for OU, or any tier for that matter... I advise this. Watch out for well.. pretty much all steel types. Steel types are probably one of the most common types used in OU, so that's why I said mainly OU. This creates a HUGE problem for Mawile, as they almsot completely wall Mawile.

Yeah, Taunt and other Steel types will be the biggest problems. Maybe I should keep it just for UU and under...

Try using Mawile in a Sandstorm team. I have used such a strategy before; Super Fang and Sandstorm can make the most defensive Pokémon vulnerable.

Oh that thing would be fun to use on a Baton Passing Sandstorm team.. Well so is pretty much anything xD Anyways... What do I do if there is no way I can remember what I have done for EV training my Sableye? I forgot because I haven't tried to train it in so long.

You could always use EV reducing berries on the stats you don't EVs in. It isn't the most accurate way to determine how you EV'd Sableye, but it works ahaha.

Oh, I also have an announcement!
Starting next Sunday, there will be a new PotW every day for next week based on....the Eeveelutions! ^^ The order of them for each day hasn't been determined yet, but one should be obvious. :P

Since we covered Flareon already, be sure to add those sets so people don't come up with a set that was already created. That is, if it is possible to pull it back up.

Oh right, we did do Flareon. :lol: However, I'm not going to post the sets that were in the old thread. Any set should be fine as long as it isn't copied from Smogon.

Yep, Flareon was the original PotW, Week #1!

I've always wondered which Servine should I keep training at this point. Right now, I have five of them here, and these are their IVs, from the first one to the last one.

17 - 20 / 22, 23, 24 / 23, 24, 25 / 25 - 28 / 23, 24, 25 / 28
0 - 3 / 12, 13, 14 / 23, 24, 25 / 18 - 21 / 23, 24, 25 / 28
14, 15, 16 / 22, 23, 24 / 19 - 22 / 22, 23, 24 / 9 - 12 / 28
29 / 22, 23, 24 / 19 - 22 / 18 - 21 / 6, 7, 8 / 28
24 - 27 / 22, 23, 24 / 19 - 22 / 18 - 21 / 0, 1 / 28

(The IVs might be a range of IVs due to uncertainty but it should be within reason)
(/ denotes next stat: stat order is HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed)

Which one? (I'm on the fence between the first one and the fourth one. Special Defense, or HP?)

I can see you used a Power Anklet for all of them to have 28 Speed IVs. As for choosing which one, it kinda depends how you want to raise your Serperior; whether you want it to be a wall or an attacker.

Based on what I can see however, I would choose the first one. The first one might not have the best HP IVs, but it has the most balanced spread of IVs out of all of them. 17 IVs in HP is not bad at all, it's the really low numbers you want to avoid (the ones 0-9) which are present in the 4th one.

I Have a Zen Mode Mild Nature Darmanitan and I'm wondering How Do I make it Viable cause Zen Mode has that Attack stat switch
or do I just Switch it for a Sheer Force Darmanitan

A Zen Mode Darmanitan is difficult to use mostly because it only enters Zen Mode when below 50% HP. Even with high defenses at that point, it won't be able to survive much with only half of its health left. In my opinion, a Sheer Force Darmanitan is preferable because it gets a big power boost from attacks like Fire Punch and Zen Headbutt.

Unfortunately, because of that attack switch, Zen isn't very viable competitively. It doesn't help it, and can, at times, cost you the match.

Sheer Force Darmanitan, on the other hand, is a threat to behold. Flare Blitz + Life Orb hits like a truck. Full of Nitroglycerin.

Let's see...

#633 Deino [Quiet] Female
IVs: 29 / 20 - 23 / 12 - 15 / 18 - 21 / 20 - 23 / 21 - 27

#633 Deino [Quiet] Male
IVs: 0, 1, 2 / 24 - 27 / 8 - 11 / 26 - 29 / 31 / 21 - 27

#633 Deino [Quiet] Female
IVs: 26 - 29 / 28 - 31 / 12 - 15 / 14 - 17 / 31 / 21 - 27

#633 Deino [Quiet] Female
IVs: 19, 20, 21 / 31 / 31 / 30, 31 / 20 - 23 / 21 - 27

#633 Deino [Quiet] Female
IVs: 7 - 10 / 13 - 16 / 16 - 19 / 22 - 25 / 31 / 21 - 27

What should I do with these Deino? Breed or use as-is? If the former, start with which pair, knowing that the male is a constant?

(The IVs might be a range of IVs due to uncertainty but it should be within reason)
(/ denotes next stat: stat order is HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed)

I'm a bit confused by the Nature. Don't you want your Hydreigon to be fast? Quiet nature increases SpAtk, but it also lowers Speed.

Looking at just the IVs though, I would say the 4th Deino is good.

These Deino are actually stashed around for a long time before I actually got them from Level 1 to where they are now. Now, as for "why Quiet", it's probably got something to do with me doing things a bit... different. (I wonder what's good for a slower, but stronger Hydreigon.)

The fourth one seems to be a good choice. Go from there, or use it for breeding?

Well I want to jump back into the CB scene, but I've forgotten lots. I'd appreciate any help so I'll start with something about tiers. What exactly is Limbo and how are BL and BL2 different for each other? Thanks in advanced :)
*Edit*
Also, differences between NU, RU, and UU

Honestly, I think competitive battling is at a standstill right now. X and Y are mere months away, and it's a sure thing that the metagame will completely change.

*sigh*
Just *sigh*. Unfortunately Cat's probably right. And for the one person I know who isnt getting X or Y (due to not having or having a desire to own a 3DS) that's bad news.
Once again *sigh*

This true, the LC Tourney did get me interested in competitive battling again but I remembered there's little point in it if it's still unknown how much will change.

Don't worry, for people that hate the new metagame (probably gonna because of Fairy type and the rumor of dual typed moves), they will still take to Gen V battling.

I have to admit I'm hoping Gatdevior's Psychic/Fairy typing leaves it with a huge advantage.

I do beleave i can say this here as it can be involve in this thread: I have signed-up for the B/W2's final PGL tournament called the Global ******** 2013.

So wish me luck and hope i can kick some Master division butt. Also if i can complete 5 matches without no errors and stuff, im able for early X and Y PGL test tournament(s) [or whatever they call it]

Ahhh. Thats happy to hear. Thanks for posting this. *continues to grind *

hey anybody know a good revenge killers

There are SOOOOOOOO many, it just depends what tier you are talking about.

I'll list a few ones that can easily carry out that job:

-Dugtrio (This thing can trap Pokémon with Arena Trap and then use Earthquake or Sucker Punch to take it out)
-Wobbuffet might be considered one since it has Shadow Tag for an ability and it works especially well when revenge killing a Pokémon with a choice item.
-Any Choice Scarfed Sweeper with high speed (like Flygon or Starmie)
-Any Banded Pokémon with a priority move like Sucker Punch or Mach Punch

thanks ive been ev training a tank team i just need a revenge killer and Dugtrio seems like a good one but i also heard the scizor with Bullet punch was a good one also

Choice Band Technician Breloom with Bullet Punch falls into Reun's category of Choice Banded Priority users.

You mean banded breloom with mach punch? not bullet punch right.

Yeah, Breloom with Technician and Mach Punch is what he meant. All the same thing, an annoying priority move. Although, getting a Shroomish with that hidden ability would be hard to come by. I don't know of anywhere to get one besides the Dream World, which I believe is being closed.

I got one my self, i was lucky to get on through DW.

oh derp I didn't mean Breloom with Mach Punch. I meant Scizor with Bullet Punch! My bad. But both could work equally well. Actually, IMO Scizor would fit the role better than Breloom. I see Breloom as that annoying SubPunch Pokemon that can Spore and stuff.

You guys know how to use a choice item better? Like i cant figure out if i should run a timid nature, do i use a choice specs or run modest with a choice scarf? Same for Adamant & jolly too.

I'm no competitive battler so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I push the higher stat to its extremes with the choice item. Using my Starmie as an example, I EV trained it in Special Attack and Speed, but gave it the Choice Scarf to guarantee it would move first 90% of the time (It's worked so far.) Then I relied on its high Special Attack to finish off the job. When the move is supereffective and especially when it's doubly-supereffective it usually OHKOs.

Note: I did not take IVs into account. I assume them to always be 30.

I normally give choice items to Pokémon with a different corresponding nature- like an Adamant Salamence with a Choice Scarf or a Timid Keldeo with Choice Specs.

Well i know its wise to give choice scarf to pokemon like jirachi cause it needs that extra speed with jolly, i just wasnt sure for the others though. I just sometimes use scarf/band/or specs with the main boosting natures like choice band on adamant nature for example.

i know i'm late but honestly it just kind of depends on what you need or want to outspeed. for example, you want to be able to outspeed stuff like volcarona with scarf terrakion, which is a feat that you can't accomplish without jolly, for instance. banded terrakion typically runs jolly to speed tie with other terrakion, but can run adamant, though the extra power isn't exactly needed since the thing has like 130 base attack and stabs with superb neutral coverage. on stuff like kyurem-b, though, you don't really *need* to outspeed anything beyond, say, dragonite or even mamoswine - you can outpace both of them with an adamant nature (adamant cube hits 289 speed, whereas dragonite and mamo hit 284 max), so there's no point in not using it. you're not really outspeeding anything noteworthy between 289 and 317 since haxorus and hydreigon are uncommon and the extra power is just so good since it lets you 2hko specially defensive jirachi with outrage after stealth rock.

speaking of strength, it's also sort of a power thing. do you need the power or the speed more? the reason why swords dance lucario runs adamant instead of jolly is not only because there's nothing particularly noteworthy to outspeed in that range, but because that extra power allows it to ohko skarmory after sr; moreover, between bullet punch and extremespeed, priority seems sort of accessory. like... going back to my scarf terrakion example, i'd rather outspeed volcarona than have slightly more powerful stone edges any day. not implying, of course, that the extra power is always useless, but terrakion already kills the things it needs to kill, to be honest. but stuff like specs heatran, for example, typically runs modest. why? well, it already outspeeds all scizor with max speed modest, and it doesn't really need to outspeed anything else other than dragonite, for which a timid nature would be useful. i guess magnezone is a better example though. it's very slow and can't really outrun anything significant with timid aside from min speed jirachi (which is typically specially defensive — a plurality of sdef jirachi win against zone too, whether this is through u-turn or fire punch), so it runs modest for the extra power. scarfers are tricky. faster ones (108+ base speed) almost invariably need a +spd nature to outspeed scarfchomp and volcarona; slower ones are going to want to run enough speed to outpace adamant dragonite at +1 and/or +spd terrakion, keldeo, etc. if they can't do both then they're probably trappers (scarftar, scarf scizor), i think.

also a lot of good players run adamant scarf jirachi these days with moderate hp investment because it helps them against specs latios, hydreigon, offensive latias, et al. hope i helped.

Ok i think i get what you mean. I read on smogon alot and it seems confusing sometimes, but normally i dont play on wifi much this gen do to people either not having a team ready or i dont ever encounter the pokemon they said the move sets beats. I hardly see jirachi and volcarona. [i see terrakion and the dragons in OU alot more than anything though] Noramlly i see ferrothron alot so i build a team that helps beat the top most use pokemon when i do get into battling alot. [I did this in 4th gen]