Pokemon B/W metagame discussion
Well well wellll~!
The stats of all the newly revealed B/W pokemon have finally been released so I think its about time to start discussing which new pokemon will kick ass, and which will be...suckish. :V All the stats of each pokemons final forms can be seen here http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/pokemon.shtml All the new abilities gained from the dream world can be seen here http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/dr...bilities.shtml Lets get started. =w= http://floatzel.net/pokemon/black-wh...okemon-154.jpg Shes special bulky with a pretty good hp stat and normal/psychic typing. She has a high 128 special attack stat and is as quick as lucario WITH the ability serene grace. I'd have to see here moveset, but that seems pretty broken already. Easily top of OU tier. http://floatzel.net/pokemon/black-wh...pokemon-61.jpg 140 attack, 95 speed. OH DEAR GOD. ;~; I can see this thinking wrecking entire teams. Fire typing my hinder it a little though. Lets hope he doesn't get something like sword dance or agility. Otherwise hes OU. A choice scarf would probably go well with this guy. http://floatzel.net/pokemon/black-wh...okemon-118.jpg EEEE~! My cute lil dragon kicks ass~! <3 147 attack and 97 speed with pure dragon typing. Paper thin defense stats though. I'd assume he'll get dragon dance as a move, which would just put him over the top as a sweeper, but I think his poor defense stats will keep him out of UBER. I hope. ;~; |
#563 Desukan
Ok this thing is destined to be in OU. 58/145/105 are AMAZING defenses, outclassing Rotom-A in both defenses, and Dusknoir in terms of Defense. It also has more HP. Unless it doesn't get any good moves, this will be the premier spinblocker. #567 Aakeosu 140 Attack and 110 Speed good enough for you? I hope so. "Weak-Kneed" sounds like its going to completely screw over this Pokemon, like half its Speed or something, but it still has that sexy Attack stat... #526 Gigaiasu Base 135 Attack and 130 Defense is incredible, and best of all, it has 25 Speed. Slower than a Snowlax! Ladies and gentleman, I think we have a Trick Room abuser in the makings... #609 Shanderaa Hey look a Fire-type that's weak to Stealth Rock. Better prepare to be sent to NU buddy... ohwait hang on a second it has Flash Fire and base 145 Sp.Atk and a decent 80 Speed. Choice Scarf abuse much? Plus its a Ghost, so more likely than not it will be able to Trick the Scarf on to something like Blissey. Its like the Heatran of Gen. 5! #594 Mamanbou 165 HP stat say what? With Hydration as well, this thing can take a nap in the rain and wake up the very next turn. 80/45 are horrific defensive stats, but you don't need to take many hits when you can restore all your health at once... AND NOW THE KING OF THEM ALL #589 Shubarugo 135 Attack. 70/105/105 defenses. Bug/Steel typing. Ladies and gentleman, this thing will go on rampages. It won't perform much like Scizor, but if this thing launches off an X-Scissor it will HURT. And trying to take it down without Fire will be extremely tricky. 20 Speed also lets it have fun in Trick Room. Something tells me that move may be a bit more popular this Generation. |
Well what about these?
#500 Enbuoo he is just TOO slow he's easily getting outclassed by Infernape with its low deffenses. WHEN WILL THIS TREND END!? http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...-pokemon-6.jpg #530 Doryuuzu - It's a great pokemon with a good type coverage and great attack and modertly good speed. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-36.jpg #573 Chirachiino : If it gets a good moveset with technician I think it might replace Ambipom. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-79.jpg #635 Savando: It's a special attacker and pysdo, if it ends up with a move set like dragonite it could eventually turn uber. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...okemon-141.jpg |
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I agree with most of the stuff which you guys posted. In spite of that, I'm going to repeat some Pokémon to elaborate on them furthermore:
http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-29.jpg Most probably OU (unless its movepool hinders it). Defenses are acceptable (75/63/63), Attack is pretty decent (100), and Speed is amazing (116). Add Motor Drive to that, and you get a REALLY fast, physical sweeper. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-32.jpg Talk about Snorlax or Rhyperior being slow! This thing has less HP, Attack and Speed, but has better Special Defense than the latter. I think that under Trick Room, it will be a beast. But outside it, I highly doubt it will be placed in a tier other than NU or even UU if it's lucky. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-36.jpg One of my favourites. Favourable typing, awesome abilities and generally good stats (especially that attack) makes it an ideal choice for an OU Sandstorm team. http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-43.jpg This thing looks a bit ugly, but it has got Swift Swim. Stat-wise, it is essentially a weaker Kingdra. Plus, its typing is not exactly favourable; while it provides a valuable immunity to Electric attacks, Grass Knot is pretty common in the metagame. I'm not sure what its tier will be; it seems a bit weak for OU, but also a little strong for UU (or is it not?). http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-45.jpg 75/75/75 defenses aren't so bad, and 125 Attack + 85 Speed is certainly not something minor. Since Psychic is not a good type offensively, and since Flying is not very prominent, I think it fits well in the OU tier. (That's it for now. I'll be posting more analysis later on, though.) Oh, and by the way, so far we don't know if Stealth Rock is still in the 5th generation. Apparently, it got replaced by a new TM called Bug Resistance, and since we only have an incomplete, preliminary list of TMs now, there's a possibility that it got re-numbered. We still don't know if some Pokémon are able to learn it by leveling up, etc, and we're unaware if we can transfer Pokémon who know Stealth Rock from a 4th generation game. So for now, Stealth Rock's future remains a mystery. What do you think of that? How will the metagame change if Stealth Rock was removed? To be honest, I think that Ice, Fire and Flying Pokémon are pretty broken to Stealth Rock. It's a powerful entry hazard and all, but I wish there was more limitations to it (like weakening its effect a bit). I know that if it goes, those annoying Sashes will become twice as much popular, but the major changes which SR did to many Pokémon seem a little too far for me. Quote:
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Spirit, could you maybe say why you think some Pokemon will be where they are? I disagree with you on some points and you don't say a whole lot...
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Wowowow.
Zoroark is far from uber. His stats are just like lucarios, only slightly quicker with better offensive abilities. His typing is also kinda crappy. I see him being used as an anti-lead though because of his ability. Speaking of lucario, in the new generation he gets the ability earthquake spiral and justice heart. No clue what justice heart does but earthquake spiral gives you an attack boost for each pokemon you KO. This along with his steel typing to resist sandstorm and stealth rock insures him a spot in OU again next gen~! <3 Also.... Hihidaruma has a second form. O_O The sprite hasn't been revealed for it, but its fire/psychic type with the ability "Daruma mode." It gets slower with 55 speed, but over 100 in each of its base stats. Also instead of 140 base attack it now has 140 base special attack. |
Double post derp
Link to the new abilities gained from dream world have been added to the first post. With that said BLAZIKEN GETS SPEED BOOST BLAZIKEN GETS SPEED BOOST BLAZIKEN GETS SPEED BOOST EEE~! Infernape was just 1up'd |
New abilities~! Time to say thing!
Venusaur with Chlorophyll: I'm just going to say this now. Torrent, Blaze, and Overgrow suck for the most part. Now that that is out of the way I can talk about Venusaur. ^_^ Chlorophyll is... wow. Anyone who has played UU knows that Venusaur + Arcanine is a dynamic duo, and with the two together in the sun they can spread some hell. Maybe even get thrown into BL. Clefable with Unaware: Dear god this is going to be hell. In one turn, Clefable's Calm Mind will get +2 Sp.Atk and +2 Sp.Def. Sure this is the only usable stat-raising move the pixie gets, but it makes it an instant tank that can rip teams apart (maybe). Ninetales with Drought: Is it just me, or does Gen 5. circle around weather alot? Ninetales is the only Pokemon besides Groudon to summon the sun, meaning that it will be used a lot, I predict. It can't do much on its own, but getting unlimited sun is nice. Golduck with Swift Swim: Golduck should make a decent UU Siwft Swimmer. 82 Attack and 95 Sp.Atk is really not terrible for UU Pokemon, and it has moves like Cross Chop, Waterfall, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Surf, and Ice Beam to mix and match as needed. Alakazam with Magic Guard: How did you not expect me to comment on this? Magic Guard is a great ability, and is exactly what the doctor called for Alakazam. Hell, Alakazam may even be able to run a Focus Sash outside of the lead position since it doesn't fear weather or entry hazard. I don't know how it will be used, but its a pretty nice ability to get. Jynx with Dry Skin: Fairly minor, but its nice. Water immunities kick ass, and it makes switching in on Water-types a far easier task who will struggle to do damage with Ice Beam, a common move bulky waters run with their now useless Surf. Vaporeon with Hydration: This will be fun on a Rain Team. It can rest in the rain and be brought to full HP, then wake up right then! Wish may still be better, though, to help the team. Flareon with Guts: *grins from ear to ear* Looks like the worst Eeveelution ever got a new toy to play with. Its physical moves may be limited, mind you, but now they'll pack a bit more punch. NU may still be its fate, but its nice that Game Freak is actually trying. Typhlosion with Flash Fire: Can you say UU? Picture Typhlosion coming in on a Fire Blast under Sunny Day, and launching off a full HP Eruption... this will be fun. Politoed with Drizzle: The only Pokemon that can summon rain... looks like this thing may find some more usage. Quagsire with Unaware: This thing can use Curse, Amnesia, and Recover you know... yeah, just throwing that out there... Entei/Suicune/Raikou with Flash Fire/Water Absorb/Volt Absorb: This means more usage for all of them. Finally that weird Pressure fetish is gone... Blaziken with Speed Boost: Infernape, you have some competition. Blaziken will now be as fast as you, so look out. Armaldo with Swift Swim: Another cool Swift Swimmer to join Kabutops and Omastar. with access to Swords Dance, you had better look out. Milotic with Cute Charm: Milotic just become MORE annoying! People will not like having to use physical moves against a Pokemon that could easily incapacitate you. Staraptor with Reckless: Can you say OU? This thing can now fire off Double-Edges and Brave Birds without a care in the world. Garchomp with Rough Skin: Aw great, Garchomp got even BETTER. This thing could easily stay placed in Ubers, but who knows? AND NOW THE BEST OF THEM ALL Gliscor with Poison Heal: Breloom was bad enough, and now he have a very physically bulky that is restoring tons of health every turn... I hope that Politoed and a Swift Swimmer will destroy this thing quickly... |
Seaking just got... Lightningrod? This way, in case they select the wrong pokemon, it will still go to you.
And... the first pure flying type- Torunerosu is awesome. He has Amazing attacking stats, and really good speed, he could easily be a mix'd sweeper, or something. Also I saw several pokemon with unburden, namely hitmonlee... Imagine it coming in, flinging either light ball, or substituting down, and then sweeping? It could be epic. Sharpedo gets speed boost too... This could get interesting with the new speed boosters... The other thing I'm scared about is weavile's not yet found out ability... |
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Its like how Delibird got Insomnia... which would be useful if its original ability wasn't Vital Spirit, which is the exact same thing. |
Hey kazzy.
Unaware doesn't boost stats double, it ignores all stat changes completely. :< Simple is the one that boost em. Other then that, AWWWW YEA POLITOED~! So glad hes useful now. I really do think those guys are cute. :> Oh also lickilcky got cloud 9 which stops all weather completely. With the new weather based teams that are sure to show up, i'll find alot more use for my licki other then countering and exploding~! <3 Quote:
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I don't follow competitive play, but I'm glad you all think Hihidaruma's going to OU.
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Both the Daruma are quite good, and support their role effectively. What I am shocked about is Garchomp. Seriously, Rough Skin is too much for him. It will be too dangerous to get any physical contact from this guy, so he will be doomed to Ubers for sure. I also said that Zoroark would be Uber for the fact of its ability. It will be annoying and confusing as well. If not, then it is a very good sweeper as well. It might not have the best typing, but both its Attack and Special Attack, along with Speed are excellent for both Anti-Lead and MixSeeper. I am also glad with the new Pokémon that have Flash Fire, yet Heatran is still better than them, so I doubt that they will get a very significant increase of usage.
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Time to analyze some of my favourite alternate abilities over here:
Poliwrath with Swift Swim: There is a good chance that this guy will become UU, since his typing provides it with valuable resistances against Dark, Rock, Ice, and Fire attacks. These are very common in the UU metagame. Poliwrath is essentially a bulkier, slightly weaker and slower version of Qwilfish. Swift Swim helps it to double its Speed in the rain, and with a wide movepool which includes Bulk Up, Encore and Belly Drum, this guy is sure to cause a lot of trouble. Tentacruel with Rain Dish: Oh boy! Tentacruel is naturally bulky and has an array of valuable support moves for any team. However, with Rain Dish in its arsenal, Tentacruel becomes even tougher to take down in the rain. Lanturn with Water Absorb: Both Volt Absorb and Water Absorb are very useful abilities, so it's going to be hard for the opponent to attack Lanturn without taking a risk. Politoed with Drizzle: FINALLY a Pokémon who has Drizzle other than Kyogre! But the downfall is that Politoed, being a NU Pokémon, has average stats all around and a slightly limited movepool. However, I'm sure it will jump from NU to... UU or even OU! Breloom with Technician: Say hello to Scizor's new brother! Breloom has a monstrous attack coupled with powerful moves like Swords Dance, Substitute and Spore. With Technician and STAB, Mach Punch, Force Palm and Drain Punch become extremely powerful attacks. Now, let's discuss some more 5th generation Pokémon: Burunkeru http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...pokemon-99.jpg With immunities to Normal, Fighting and Water as well as great defenses (100/70/105), this thing is surely going to become a good support Pokémon. Although its Speed (60) is mediocre and its Special Attack (85) is not something major, it can still give off some respectable attacks. It also has access to Recover, which makes it a bulky tank able to quickly restore HP. Overall, it's either going to be placed in OU (if it gets more support moves) or UU. Shanderaa http://pokebeach.com/news/0910/black...okemon-115.jpg Sporting the highest Special Attack of any non-legendary (145) with decent defenses (60/90/90) and an acceptable Speed stat (80), Shanderaa is unquestionably going to be placed in OU. Flash Fire makes it even more powerful, and with access to moves like Will-O-Wisp, Memento, Curse and Pain Split, it is sure to become a top-tier Pokémon. |
I found out a new move kazzy might like called "Guard share"
Lemme copy pasty the description. "With psychic abilities it adds together the defense and special defense of it and the opponent and then divided them in half" So lets say this was used on the opponents shuckle. You would be able to take away half of its defense and add it too your own. Alakazam gets this move, which can greatly help him from being walled. This along with the move recovery, and his new ability magic guard can potentially turn him into a mini-tank. EDIT: Oh oh! Heres another that alakazam gets through TM. "Psycho shock" Its a special psychic move with 80 base power. Despite this being a special move, when it hits the opponent it is counted as a physical one. This move can help make alakazam a mix'd sweeper while only using his special attack stat. Why didn't weavile get awesome stuff like this? ._. EDIT2: Well weavile did get one move change. Beat up. Apparently its base power has been turned to 1 instead of 10 per hit implying that there is now a hidden factor to the amount of damage per hit. It has yet to be tested yet so no information has been revealed. Hopefully this is something weavile will be able to make use of. |
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Also, am I the only one who thinks telepathy is a GREAT ability for double and triple battles? It makes it much easier to use Gardevoir on a team I'm planning. Also excited for Speed Boost Blaziken, Encourage Feraligatr, Harvest Tropius and Mischievous Heart Sableye. |
Ninetales with Drought
Saves a move spot for sunny day. His attack will be powerful and solar beam will not have to be charged. Ninetales from dream world will be great! Exeggutor with Harvest This is the most awesome ability ever. Give it the berry that makes it more strong against fire moves and it loses one of its weaknesses!! Seaking with Lightningrod I laughed when I saw this. Gives it complete immunity to electricity. Gives your team complete immunity. Altaria with Cloud Nine Hail is often used against Altaria. This eliminates its effect. Tropius with Harvest Same as Exeggutor. But with ice. Hihidaruma with Daruma Mode It's stats increase wildly with this ability. :D Dasutodasu with Aftermath Every time your garbage bag dies, your opponent takes some decent damage. I think he will be rather good with this ability. |
Let me analyze one of my favourite Water Pokémon of this generation, Kerudio:
Name: Kerudio Pokédex entry: #647 Type: Water/Fight Ability: Justice Heart - Attack is raised when hit by a Dark-type move. It is unknown if the Pokémon is immune to Dark-type attacks or not. Base stats: HP - 91 Attack - 72 Defense - 90 Special Attack - 129 Special Defense - 90 Speed - 108 Where do I start with this guy? 129 special attack is certainly nothing to laugh at, 108 Speed allows Kerudio to outspeed base 100 Pokémon without any speed investments, and 91/90/90 defenses are pretty decent for a sweeper. With access to boosting moves like Calm Mind, Cheer Up and Swords Dance, Kerudio can become a deadly physical, special AND even mixed sweeper. Let me do some further explanations on the physical and special side: Special attack A special attack of 129 is very impressive, and as if that wasn't enough, Kerudio has Calm Mind in its arsenal. Couple that with Hydro Pump and Focus Blast or Mystery Sword*, which provide an excellent combination of STAB moves together, and you get a devastating special sweeper which is fully capable of taking down unprepared teams by itself. *: Mystery Sword: Type: Fighting Power: 85 Accuracy: 100 Type: Special PP: 10 Effect: Uses the Pokémon special attack stat, but deals physical damage to the opponent. In other words, this is the perfect solution for Blissey and the likes. Attack 72 Attack + Swords Dance + Justice Heart + wide movepool = deadly physical sweeper. Imagine coming into a Dark-type attack which causes you to get a +1 attack boost, then using Swords Dance on the switch. You get an easy +3 boost, empowering a mediocre 72 attack to unbelievable heights. Having a great physical movepool which includes Aqua Tail, Close Combat, X-Scissor, Stone Edge and the classic Aqua Jet, there's no doubt that Kerudio will become a very fearsome physical sweeper. EDIT: This item has been confirmed to be fake, so there's no need to mention it anymore. So, in conclusion, Kerudio has numerous merits which will surely make it a top-tier threat. Unfortunately, this tier is probably not going to be OU; Kerudio, which has stats EXTREMELY close to Salamence, seems far too strong for OU play, so it will most likely be placed in the Uber tier. Nevertheless, it is still one heck of a crazy Pokémon! |
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After trying some Pokémon out in the Alpha Testing of Pokémon (DISALLOWED), and checking a lot of competitive pages on Smogon Forums, I changed my opinion on a couple of Pokémon mentioned over here:
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I will be analyzing some more extremely common Pokémon (from what I saw in the testing) in the next few days. Expect mentions of Erufuun and Nattorei primarily. |
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2517/598.png
See this Pokemon? Looks like Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong have some company as supporting Steel-types in Nattorei! HP: 74 Atk: 94 Def: 131 Sp.Atk: 54 Sp.Def: 116 Spd: 20 With 74/131/116 defenses and amazing typing, not a whole lot is going to be OHKOing you. And with a support movepool that can accomplish pretty much anything a team could want, this guy is definitely going to be seeing lots of early use during the first stages of the B/W metagame. Noteworthy Moves: Leech Seed, Spikes, Thunderwave, Gravity, Toxic, Gyro Ball, Power Whip, Curse. Nattorei really is a hybrid between Forretress and Celebi. Nattorei takes the best qualities out of these two Pokemon which essentially allows it to fit most any supporting role on a team, and the unpredictability of what set it is running only adds to his usability. ParaSeeder? Spikes support? A foe making a bad choice could easily spell doom for them. As such, two sets quickly come to mind for this guy: Nattorei Sassy Leftovers 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Sp.Def 0 Spd IVs ~Spikes ~Power Whip ~Gyro Ball ~Thunder Wave / Toxic Essentially, a Spiker that can take most hits from both ends. Taunt isn't a huge issue as long as it isn't coming from Skarmory, because Gyro Ball WILL hurt coming off of a Speed stat lower than Snorlax's. Explosion isn't listed because it has been completely butchered this generation, as it no longer halves the foe's Defenses before you use it, meaning it will do an unsatisfyingly low amount of damage. Nattorei also has the ability to be a SubSeeder of sorts. Nattorei Sassy Leftovers 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Sp.Def 0 Spd IVs ~Leech Seed ~Substitute ~Toxic ~Gyro Ball This set attempts to stall out foes through a lethal combination of Leech Seed and Toxic, and Gyro Ball keeps you from being Taunted to death. The first set is probably a better option, but this set can still prove lethal enough with Wish support and some of the bulkier Pokemon out of the way. Problems with Nattorei: A 4x Fire weakness, which makes Heatran, Shandera, Infernape, Blaziken, and pretty much any other Fire-type home free and able to set up. Substitute Heatran laughs at Nattorei as loudly as one can laugh. Nattorei also lacks any recovery outside of Rest, and that simply isn't an option. As such, Vaporeon or Blissey will pretty much be necessary for Wish support. Finally, Nattorei is set-up bait for Lucario, since getting up Leech Seed doesn't much matter when your fighting a Lucario that is getting up Swords Dances like mad. Final Words: In the Ubers environment Nattorei will have troubles with the shockingly high amount of Fire-type moves, but once things start settling down he will find himself proving more useful to teams. Such support moves and defenses are simply too good to miss! |
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So seaking only has one weakness, and gets a special attack boost from electricity?
My god...is seaking actually...USEFUL NOW?! I can't except such a thing. D: |
It is now confirmed that Dream World abilities are breed-able. That just means that we can get all those nice abilities with the IVs and natures we want! :D
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Meh, at least Goldeen is going to have a better time in Little Cup with Lightningrod giving it a hardy immunity. It makes Elekid a less fantastic threat to Rain Dance teams, so Goldeen may see a little more usage than Omanyte, even.
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Double post just to tell you that the latest version of Pokemon (DISALLOWED) has GENERATION FIVE POKEMON. I'm making a team right now, so expect lots of updates that are more than speculation! :D
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I would that Kaz. :P
Please tell us a lot about what you find. Regarding Seaking's new ability; Lightningrod adds to its special attack, while Seaking has a better attack stat, and better physical moves. Even if it gets an immunity to electric moves, the increase to its special attack isn't that great or useful. |
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Anyways, now that Gen V has been fully established, I think the information provided will definitely be more reliable. *Rushes to start planning a new team* Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, I promised a write-up on Erufuun, since it was, to my surprise, extremely common when I was doing the testing. Here it is: Name: Erufuun Pokédex entry: #547 Type: Grass Ability: Mischevious Heart - Non-attacking moves have a higher priority (+1). Base stats: HP - 60 Attack - 67 Defense - 85 Special Attack - 77 Special Defense - 75 Speed - 116 You might think that such stats, excluding speed, make this guy a pretty mediocre Pokémon, but don't let that fool you. Sporting: -an enormous base speed of 116, -an excellent ability in Mischevious Heart, -a very wide supporting movepool which includes Encore, Substitute, Leech Seed, Taunt, U-turn, Light Screen and Stun Spore. Please welcome one of the most extreme threats in the 5th generation metagame (and I really mean that). Having a priority Substitute, Leech Seed and Protect, this gives room for some annoying stall using the SubSeed combo, and with Taunt it can prevent all kinds of set-up no matter how fast the opponent is thanks to its ability. This allows it to effectively shut down all sorts of walls or support Pokémon, and also cripple sweepers with Encore. Just imagine something like Salamence with 2 DD boosts being unable to hit because of getting trapped by priority Encore! Not only that, but since Erufuun will most probably not be used as an attacker, U-Turn will find a great usage in scouting and switching into appropriate counters once Erufuun has done its job successfully. The only flaw I see in this guy is his typing, which gives it a whopping 5 weaknesses to some common types, and coupling that with poor defensive stats means that any super effective attack will kill it. However, with the right support Pokémon in the team, such as Shanderaa, the opponent is ensured a deadly end which is almost impossible to escape without getting affected in some bad way. I've already tried this as a lead myself, and it has done me miracles. It prevented all the opposing leads from setting any entry hazards and/or attacking in the battles which I had, forcing them to switch out. This has given me chance to get the SubSeed combo up, or get a Pokémon of mine a free switch in. All these merits arguably make Erufuun one of the best, if not the best, stall breaker alongside being potentially the fastest anti-lead and supporting Pokémon in the metagame. |
Boredom killed me, so I tried a team. It isn't that great in planning, but for the time being, I have been winning each and every battle.
It is a Sandstorm team, that is, my specialty. I can say one thing: Hippowdon and Doryuzu and Nittorei all together are just awesome!!! Just after a SD, Doryuzu will seep the whole team. Nittorei will set up spikes, and poof!! I also tried a Choice Scarf Waruvial which proved to be amazingly strong. Shandera was good, but not as great as Heatran since it has a lot of weaknesses. >_< Those are the ones I tried, and I am pleased to say that SS gained a new level. :D |
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Btw, I still believe shanderra is a huge huge threat. With shadow tag and that massive special attack alone its easily gonna be the best revenge killer. X-x |
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http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...r_5b_593_f.png Burungel Water/Ghost HP: 100 Attack: 60 Defense: 70 Sp.Atk: 85 Sp.Def: 105 Speed: 60 Total: 480 This lady is made to be a specially based Spinblocker, which makes it an amazing counter to a very popular spinner: Starmie. Thunderbolt does less than 50%, so you can have fun with Recover and launch off some Shadow Balls or Energy Balls, its really up to personal preference. The Sp.Atk stat isn't amazing though, so you can't rely on this thing to support such a role. Hell, I wasn't even able to OHKO a Garchomp with Ice Beam with Burungel. Don't let that turn you off the idea of using her though, she is great at what she does. Vaporeon may seem like a better Pokemon and hey, he just may be, but Burungel has some nice qualities, mostly with her being a Ghost-type. This makes her an amazing Spinblocker, and since we lost the Rotom formes as blockers, Burungel makes up for Wash Rotom well enough. Boil Over is a great Water-type move with 80 BP and a 30% chance of burn that nearly every Water-type gets, but Burungel can use Wll-O-Wisp for a more reliable burn status. Indeed, this Pokemon is shockingly bulky, and has great abilities in Water Absorb and Cursed Body. The latter of the two may disable the last used move of the foe, which can be quite nice. http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...d/4/48/635.png Sazandora Dark/Dragon HP: 92 Attack: 105 Defense: 90 Sp.Atk: 125 Sp.Def: 90 Speed: 98 Total: 600 This guy has better stats than Flygon everywhere, except the 2 lower Speed points, and as such performs similar duties. I use this guy as a Choice Scarfer with Draco Meteor, U-Turn, Surf, and Fire Blast. This guy has a great in and out strategy, and you can't ignore that gorgeous Sp. Atk stat. I haven't tested out Dark Pulse or Earth Power yet, as I have mainly been going for coverage, but they could very well be usable. Look out for Blissey when using this guy. As long as you do, he will impress you. http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...d/f/f3/545.png Pendora Bug/Poison HP: 60 Attack: 90 Defense: 89 Sp.Atk: 55 Sp.Def: 69 Speed: 112 Total: 475 Bug/Poison? Base stat total of 475? Get ready for NU... ohwait never mind this guy is amazing. Sure its stats are low, but they are high in all the right places. Running a Jolly nature with 252 Speed EVs, this thing has surprised MANY MANY MANY battlers with its amazing speed. They have brought in things that receive an easy OHKO because they don't expect this guy to outpace them. As such, Pendora makes a great Swords Dancer, since it gets fantastic moves like Megahorn, Earthquake, Poison Jab, and Rock Slide. Nice, no? Anyway, not only can it try for a sweep, but I use it as a lead. It is THE fastest Toxic Spikes user in the entire game, making it a nice enough lead. Plus it has the Attack stat to really dent foes. Use this Bug well and you won't be disappointed. Definitely one of my favorites of Gen 5, without question. Plus it looks awesome. http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...Spr_5b_555.png Hihidaruma Fire HP: 105 Attack: 140 Defense: 55 Sp.Atk: 30 Sp.Def: 55 Speed: 95 Total: 480 I haven't tried out the odd "Daruma Mode" form of Hihidaruma, but the regular one is pretty nice. Boasting 140 Attack makes this odd thing an amazing Choice Scarfer that can rip some Pokemon in two pieces. If your a really risky person you could attach a Choice Band on it and let it destroy everything in sight, but 95 Speed is only decent at best. This thing doesn't play like Infernape, since it will be coming in and out a lot. This makes having a spinner key, as Stealth Rock is as common as ever, and Spikes only went up in usage. Otherwise, poor Hihi won't be lasting long. Good thing it gets nice moves like Flare Blitz, U-Turn, Earthquake, Superpower, and Rock Slide. He's good, but he's not great. He dies really quickly if you misplay and can't come in on a whole lot, so be careful with this guy. |
If you give Shanderaa Shadow Ball, then he can seriously destroy everything. He aided even in the DARK type E4 member. It's just water he really can't handle. Shanderaa with Shadow Ball is a huge butt kicker. I have a team which I am getting to be great competetive battlers.... And I, RotomGuy, will prove Shanderaa is the guy we all hoped for!
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Shuckle/Ditto
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...are_%28move%29
Spoiler Alert:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi..._%28ability%29
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http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...ok%C3%A9mon%29
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Shuckles new ability is kinda a waste though.
He doesn't have anything that lowers his stats like the other pokemon that get it. Kinda unfortunate, but the power share thing may be pretty helpful. Still, I don't see him ending up in uber. |
I've already seen Ditto used as a 'revenge killer' in several teams in Pokémon (DISALLOWED). It can be really annoying if played correctly, but otherwise, you can get rid of it fairly easily.
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Shuckle doesn't exactly get any moves that would increase its stats in a good way. Antagonist is generally only useful on Smuglord because of Leaf Storm.
Ditto, though its ability is useful, isn't nearly as potent as one may think, since most variants carry a Choice Scarf to revenge kill with. The problem is that you always know an opposing Ditto's moveset since its YOUR Pokemon its turning into. As such, its not hard at all to bring in a reliable counter and force a switch. Definitely not Uber material. |
Ditto isn't uber material, but it IS the ultimate scouter.
Seriously, being able to see whatever the opponents running and mimic it is amazing! Ditto may become UU or OU now. |
Okay, here's something I've been using to great success.
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...Spr_5b_612.png Ononokusu @ Choice Scarf Adamant, 252 Attack, 252 Spe, 6 HP Outrage Earthquake X-Scizor Return I'll admit right now, I have been using this set for a week, and I have yet to use a move other than Outrage. Honestly, with 493 speed and 434 attack, I'ts just awesome. The ONLY things that can take 3 hits from outrage and live are Scizor, Nattorei, Skarmory, and Bronzong. That is why I have him partnered with this guy... http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...Spr_5b_637.png Together, they beat almost anything. |
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This suddenly turned into an RMT. o3o Return was just filler, by the way.
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The ability regeneration is going to help ho-oh quite a bit.
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The ubers get uberer. |
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I honestly don't see the Grass-types getting any more hype from this generation than any other... >_<
Except I think Nattorei (against the right Pokemon) might have some potential. It's got awesome defenses, can learn Curse to increase its Attack and Defense, so as long as its not paired up with Fire types, I think it could be useful. |
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Jalorda seemed only decent at first, but with the ability Antagonist, stat deductions are now stat increases. As a result, Leaf Storm raises Sp.Atk two stages while doing massive damage! It also possesses the ability to SubSeed amazingly, thanks to its high Speed, Glare, and the before mentioned Antagonist. That's not all though! Erufuun's Teasing Heart ability makes it the best supporter out there! (maybe) Support moves are given +1 priority, so the little puffball can Encore anything it wants, or even set up Reflect, Light Screen, Tailwind, Safeguard, or Leech Seed! Wowza! Mower Rotom is now technically a Grass type, which give Leaf Storm new-found power. While the loss of Ghost-typing hurts, ignoring this bulky Electric/Grass type would be foolish, especially since it possesses many of its old tanking abilities. Then of course it Virizion, a bulky Pokemon that is speedy as well! This thing can take hits like a champ, and then proceed to Swords Dance or Calm Mind up and devastate foes with powerful moves like Close Combat, Leaf Blade, and Sacred Sword. Looks like things are looking up for the Grass-type this gen! |
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But then I can't help but feel bad for those Pokemon who didn't really make the cut. Yanakki, Doredia, Morobareru, Hahakomori, Mebukujika, and Marakacchi all seem to be left out. But let's see if even I, an inobservant little person, can shed some light. I'll probably miss something in the process, but meh. Yanakki doesn't seem to have anything useful. The only thing I could see it doing is utilizing its relatively high Speed (Base 101) to strike early, while holding a berry to increase either its Attack or Sp.Attack in a pinch, since it has low defenses (Base 68 each). Its abilities don't seem to really help either. Gluttony isn;t all that great for a low-defense Pokemon and Overgrow isn't all too special either unless it plans for a huge strike at the end. It's Base 75 HP doesn't seem to do it wonders either. :/ Doredia, I think, may benefit with an Erufuun-provided Tailwind. I think it would have the chance to pull off a Butterfly Dance with extra Speed (Base 90) to increase its already pretty high Sp.Attack (Base 110) and protect it from special attacks (Base 75 Special Defense) if it were faster, or delay by using Teeter Dance first. I've always found Doredia to be an annoyance whenever it used a Tailwind-Teeter Dance-Butterfly Dance combo. Then it can pull off a Petal Dance (now with its new Base 120 power). It's only weakness that I can really see at this point is its sub-par Defense (Base 75). Also, Attack should be sacrificed (Base 60) since it seems to be of no use here. I guess EV training in Defense would be in order, with either a Bold (+Def, -Atk) or Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk) Nature. Hahakomori seems to face the same problem as Parasect, except worse. 4x weaknesses to two types and 2x weaknesses to 4 more types. And its Defenses (Base 80 Defense, Base 70 Special Defense) makes it very vulnerable. While its Speed is acceptable (Base 92) and its Attack is above average (Base 103), it seems to be like a suicide attacker, only pulling one shot which is the difference between life and death. However, a Ninjask-Speed Boost-Swords Dance-Baton Pass to Hahakomori might really help, allowing it to work its Attack with X-Scissor, Leaf Blade, or any other physical move that might help. Morobareru is so slow (Base 30 Speed). And its offensive stats (Base 85 Attack and Sp.Attack) and its defensive stats (Base 70 Defense and Base 80 Special Defense) doesn't seem to do many favors. Only HP (Base 114) seems to define it. Effect Spore doesn't help much, and Regeneration doesn't make it a reason to use it. That's all I can really say. I akways found Mebukijika as randomly versatile in its moves. Megahorn is understandable, but I didn;t imagine it would have Jump Kick. Faint Attack also seemed very random. But I like its Attack stat (Base 100) and its Speed is decent (Base 95), though its pretty brittle. (Base 70 on each defense) It sorta seems like a Doredia opposite, plus attack versatility, minus the status moves. It has access to moves that can eliminate its weaknesses, but something tells me it just needs a little more "umph" to its stats. Marakacchi is OK, I guess, for a one-stage Pokemon. It sorta seems like Cacturne to me in a way: High offense (although Cacturne was more focused on Attack while Marakacchi is more of a special attacker, with Base 106 Sp.Atk), brittle defense (Base 67 on both defenses), low Speed (Base 60), but with access to Sucker Punch. But Marakacchi loses to Cacturne as it gets no STAB from Sucker Punch, gets less STAB since its single typed, and its abilities are only OK. Water Absorb seems to be the only ability that is worth using in a single battle, and possibly Storm Drain in multiples. Of course, I may be forgetting things. I'd take my reviews with a grain of salt if I were you. ;) |
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I found this random tiering online: http://s7.zetaboards.com/N_M/topic/927309/1/
It's not Smogon approved but it seems to be pretty accurate based on their discussions, although it doesn't list NU. I've been studying it recently, and I've got to say, I'm loving that all of my favorite pokemon are OU or BL this generation. The sudden rise of Sableye thanks to Mischievous Heart and No Rotom Spin Blocking is highly appreciated. Plus good things for Hihidaruma, Meloetta, Jaroda, Roopushin, and Ranculus. I may actually raise a competitive team. |
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I'm really not to happy with Kyurem being placed in BL.
Also why Erufuun? |
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As harsh as that sounds, a lot of it still seems pretty accurate, of course ignoring the fact that UU and BL can't really be decided this early in a metagame. Tiering itself though is really complex, so I am waiting on Smogon since they are pretty much the standard for competitive battling. Oh, and as of yet Dreak World abilities are not considered legal, making many Pokemon like Ditto and Alakazam less great for OU. |
For all competitive battlers on VR, I believe that you will find the 13th issue of The Smog extremely helpful in introducing Gen V's metagame to you. Here's a list of the most important articles:
The premiere metagame threatlist OU metagame analysis Changes to the old legendaries The decline of previous threats. |
I'm glad that Nattorei and Erufuun may very well find a place in OU. But how come I didn't see anything about a Perversity-Jaroda in there? Hm...whatevs. It's too bad to see Rotom's better formes take a hit and fall, in which it seems that Rotom-W probably survived the best out of all, while Rotom-A seems to have lost its main usability.
Funny to see how Ditto seems to be getting its "revenge" on the world for ignoring it. :lol: |
Actually, I already faced a couple of Ditto back when PO was working on my computer, and quite honestly, it didn't pose such a big threat on my team members. In fact, I was able to defeat it in the very first turn, so I'm not sure if it really is such a big threat after all. It all comes down to how well you predict its entry and then how you carefully you make your moves. But yeah, it does seem 'eccentric' to see Ditto rise from zero to hero, right from the darkness of the NU tier.
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Curious they listed Murkrow, as opposed to Sableye or Volbeat. I didn't know he could abuse Mischievous Heart well.
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Imagine that you have a +3 Atk and +3 Spd Salamence, ready to wipe out a foe's team. In comes their Ditto, which takes your stat boosts along with your stats, and you must switch it. Sure it didn't KO your Pokemon, but it stopped you well enough. Even if you bring in something like a Bronzong and it Dragon Claws, it can just come back later and repeat its job. Although it is fun to bait and trap them, like having them come in on something Pursuit-weak and then throw in a Tyranitar to take them out. :lol: |
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Almost anything with Mischievous Heart will be annoying. Moves that get a priority due to this ability, such as Taunt, Substitute and Leech Seed, will pretty much shut down a Pokémon or stall it out annoyingly. The purpose of a Mischevious Heart Pokémon is mostly, if not always, to do that and not necessarily sweep opposing Pokémon.
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I tryed battling on Pkemononline the other day, i got destroyed!!! Those 5th gen pokemon/abilitys makes alot harder to predict stuff i had a 30-8 win streak in one day, and my current record was like 10-4 really bad though. Plus that dang steel/ground mole in sandstorm teams it kills you! My teams always lost to sandstorm teams.
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1) A Sand Streamer (Hippowdon/Tyranitar, both of which share similar weaknesses) 2) Doryuuzu (the #1 sweeper in any sand team): Swords Dance, Earthquake, Stone Edge, X-Scissor/some other filler move. 3) Any of the following for secondary sweeping: Garchomp, Landlos, Terrakion (other Pokémon are also valid) 4) Nattorei 5) Miscellaneous support Pokémon (which is where sandstorm teams cannot be exactly predictable): Burunkeru, Scizor, Heatran, Empoleon (though rare), etc. So basically, you are almost 100% sure that you will face Doryuuzu in a sandstorm team. From there, you can ensure that you have a counter which can defeat Doryuuzu. Since it is weak to common types like Water, Fire and Fight, it should not be a big problem to pack attacks of these types. Also, as an added bonus, you will also be able to defeat other Pokémon in a sandstorm team (like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Garchomp, Landlos, Nattorei, etc) because they share several weaknesses which Doryuuzu has. Really, the key is to predict when your opponent is going to bring in Doryuuzu, then immediately hit it in the face before it can set up or sweep. Lastly, Doryuuzu is weak to many common priority attacks, such as Aqua Jet and Mach Punch, so you can always make sure to hit it with such attacks before it tries to defeat you. |
I have been checking Smogon recently. Right now, they are doing a suspect list whether to ban some abilities. They are currently suspecting three abilities. These abilities are:
Drizzle Inconsistent Shadow Tag They are still debating about it and they will post the results either today or tomorrow. Most probably, these three abilities are going to be banned. After that, they will see about the Pokémon that should be banned. |
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2- Inconsistent NEEDS to be banned. It seriously raises the level of luck in the battles to ridiculous levels, and so shall probably be included with the Evasion Clause. Basically, Inconsistent raises a stat (including evasion) of the Pokémon by two stages and decreases another stat by one stage at the end of every turn. It is an annoyingly noobish ability which makes Pokémon battles unfair. 3- Shadow Tag is only being nominated for a ban mainly because of Shanderaa. Basically, when Shanderaa acquires Shadow Tag from the Dream World, it will be able to defeat at least one opposing Pokémon by switching into resisted attacks. Many people expressed fear that this will make Shanderaa much harder to take down in a battle without doing a lot of sacrifices. If I had to vote on those three abilities, I would personally say that Drizzle should be kept unbanned, Inconsistent needs to be banned and Shadow Tag... well, it doesn't matter to me either way. |
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For sandstorm, they still didn't start banning Pokémon yet, but most probably, Doryuzu is going to be banned to Ubers. |
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I can go on and debate over this for as long as it takes me, but I'm not going to bother, for my opinion will not influence the direction of the new metagame anyways. But really, as long as sandstorm teams are still omnipresent, rain cannot be described as unstoppable. Both of them are much stronger than the other weather teams, but they are both still not broken, in my opinion. EDIT: In other news, have a look at this post on Smogon forums, in which a member posted the log of a really interesting battle. Using a single Bidoof with Inconsistent, he was able to defeat a whole OU team! 0_0 |
I am not debating which one is stronger, since I am a Sandstorm user and I know it is strong. Also, I am not viewing any threads in Smogon. I am viewing the official thread in which selected players are nominating it. Many abilities were discussed, including Sand Veil, but they came to a conclusion that these three abilities are those who should be discussed about.
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Gorebyss and Huntail also play key roles on Swift Swim teams, since they can easily come in on something unprepared to deal with them (such as a Blissey, trying to stop a Ludicolo sweep) and throw up a Shell Break. With a White Herb, they only receive positive boosts, and can then Baton Pass away to a Pokemon that can absolutely devastate a team. The fact that they will be devastatingly quick under the rain and after the Shell Break boosts means that they will almost always get away, especially since they resist common priority attacks such as Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, and Ice Shard. Sorry if this seems like a lot of rambling, I just wanted to point out just how extremely powerful rain is, especially since sand only has one Sand Paddler, and mostly takes advantage of the risky Sand Veil. |
Well, as a Sandstorm user, I wouldn`t necessarily guarantee Doryuuzu being on a Sandstorm team (I rarely use one myself), but I have heard from nearly every person I`ve battled about how difficult they are to defeat. While it`s not quite that dangerous unless used correctly, I regretfully would have to agree that it is worth banning to Ubers. At the very least, it should get rid of all those annoying Sandstorm team knock-offs all over the place, nobody puts any originality into them because of the "easy gimmick" battlers have to abuse.
On the note of abilities being banned, Drizzle most definitely should not be. Prior to the Dream World, inly Kyogre, and Uber Pokemon, had access to it, which put the other weather effects at a "disadvantage" to Sandstorms, because of Tyranitar and Hippowdon being able to create them permanently. Eliminating Drizzle would just further increase the complaints people would have about Sandstorms being too overpowered in Generation V. Inconsistent always seems to be used by Smeargle whenever I see it, it comes out as a lead, Spores, then uses a stat-boosting move and receives the Inconsistent boost at the end of the turn, followed by either another stat-boosting move or Baton Pass right away. In this way, it basically works as a pseudo-Shell Break Baton Pass. I don`t really want to see Shadow Tag being banned, especially because of that new strategy of mine....only three Pokemon can currently use it and amount to anything (except for with that strategy of mine ;) ) Wobbuffet, Wynaut, and Shandera. Wobbuffet`s already Uber, and Wynaut`s stats aren`t the best. Shandera is a great Pokemon, but it isn`t invincible, and doesn`t actually have a 100% success rate (though arguably a high one). Ever time someone uses is against me, they bring it out against Bronzong. On the same turn as the switch, I set up with a certain move anyone who`s battled me knows, and then KO it the next turn. With the right Pokemon, it`s possible to take it out without any casualties. So while I`m not entirely behind banning Shadow Tag altogether, I can see the sense in it (and Shandera would still have Flash Fire, a great ability, so it isn`t all bad). |
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Smogon didn't start suspecting Pokémon yet, but soon enough, we will see about Doryuzu.
Anyway, the results of the suspect test of the three abilities are already tere and here they are: Drizzle: 56% asked for it to be banned so it is going to go to round 2 to see whether it should be banned or not. Inconsistent: 96% asked to ban this ability, and from now onwards this ability is banned in standard play. Shadow Tag: Only 43% asked for it to be banned and thus it is decided that Shadow Tag can be used in standard play. I will be waiting for them to decide about Drizzle and I will tell you then. |
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Kabutops: weaknesses to Electric, Grass (x4), Ground and Fight are really crippling, and so setting up against the opposing Pokémon, even with Swift Swim under the rain, is a pretty difficult task. Still, its attack stat is appealing and cannot be ignored. Ludicolo: has average stats all around, and is not really capable of denting large holes in opposing teams when compared to Kingdra. Plus, weaknesses to Bug (U-Turn, X-Scissor), Flying (Air Slash, Brave Bird), and Poison. The former two aren't exactly rare to stumble upon, but Ludicolo still remains one of the best Swift Swimmers in the rain even when Omastar has better special attack. Qwilfish: 65/75/55 defenses are verging on horrible (and yes, defenses do matter even under the rain, for a sweeper should preferably be able to take a hit). It's strongest stat is a mediocre 95 attack, and that's not exactly something extraordinary. This can be remedied with Swords Dance, though. Omastar: the same thing as Kabutops in terms of weaknesses. I haven't really used Omastar, so I can't give much detail on it. However, it's defense and special attack stats are appealing, but the typing hinders it greatly. Plus, 55 speed is really horrible and even under the rain, it won't be outrunning too many Pokémon. Kingdra: the only OU rain abuser. Water/Dragon is an excellent typing, allowing it to get STAB on very powerful attacks. 75/95/95 defenses are respectable, and 95/95 attack stats allow it to become a fearsome mixed sweeper. 85 speed + Swift Swim under the rain makes it able to set up easily and sweep. However, it only has balanced, average stats all around and doesn't have a particular strong point (although that hardly matters with Dragon Dance). When you compare them all to Doryuuzu, Garchomp, Terrakion or some other Sandstorm abusers, you will find that Swift Swimmers stand, at best, around average Pokémon (with the exception of Kingdra). Almost each of the common Sandstorm abusers have an extraordinarily strong point with extra means of boosting their stats. Terrakion gets STAB on two extremely powerful attacks which, I think, are unresisted by any common Pokémon in OU. I know for a fact that one Pokémon like Kingdra under the rain will not always be capable of sweeping a whole team by itself, so the other Swift Swimmers still matter. TL;DR: Rain is very powerful, and it has become much more threatening with the addition of Drizzle in Gen V. However, Sandstorm still reigns over the metagame, and its abusers are generally more powerful than rain abusers, especially with the addition of strong Pokémon like Doryuuzu, Terrakion and Nattorei. Quote:
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*Double post for updates*
Here is the list of suspect Pokemon which need to be voted on by specific members in Smogon forums: Darkrai Deoxys-A Deoxys-N Doryuuzu Latios Manaphy Shaymin-S |
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Arceus Dialga Giratina Giratina-O Groudon Ho-Oh Kyogre Lugia Mewtwo Palkia Rayquaza Reshiram Zekrom Considering those who are currently getting suspected, we will find many Pokémon that are now OU! Deoxys-D Deoxys-S Garchomp Latias Mew Salamence Wobuffet (Wynaut as well) All these are now OU! O_O They will have a huge impact on the current metagame. Going back to the current suspect list, here is what I would vote for: Darkrai: Ban A lot of Speed and Sp. Attack along with Dark Void. Not to mention its wide movepool. This thing is just too strong. Deoxys-A: Ban Deoxys-N: Ban Both of them have huge Attack/Sp. Attack and can break through teams easily. It is hard to stop them. Doryuuzu: Don't Ban I understand it is the fastest one when Sandstorm is in play, and yes, it has a huge attack, but it has its own drawbacks nevertheless. I played with it for a good amount of time and I was able to notice that it can be defeated. However, if Drizzle is banned, then this thing needs to go away. Latios: Don't Ban Lati@s lost their Soul Dew in Gen V. Without it, Latios, despite its huge Sp. Attack, can still be countered. Tyranitar is quite popular and is capable of defeating it with Crunch/Pursuit. Another commonly used one is Scizor which U-turn/Pursuit Latios as well. It is weaker than before so it won't be able to survive. Manaphy: Ban Shaymin-S: Ban Manaphy has that move (I forgot its name) which increase Sp. Attack by 3 stages! Along with rain, Manaphy is invincible! It deserves to be banned. I has to. Shaymin-S has got two strong moves along with high Speed and high Sp. Attack. The normal Shaymin is strong so what about this? |
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Now, here's what my votes are for the suspect list: (they are the exact same as Spirit, but I elaborated on the reasons much more) Darkrai: Ban 135 SpA + 125 Spe + Nasty Plot only make Darkrai capable of outrunning and defeating almost all Pokémon in the OU metagame. Now, with its phenomenal speed, it makes perfect usage of Dark Void, which has a good accuracy of 80% for a sleep move. Add that to Darkrai's Bad Dreams ability, and you've got an extremely difficult Pokémon to take down which can easily set up and wreck havoc. Deoxys-A: Ban Deoxys-N: Ban Seriously, HUGE offensive stats and super high speed allow both the Deoxys formes to outrun and consequently destroy opposing teams extremely easily. Doryuuzu: Don't Ban I agree with Spirit over here; if Drizzle is voted to be banned, then Doryuuzu should be banned, too. Doryuuzu is capable of outspeeding all the Pokémon in the metagame under the sand, and with an amazing attack as well as Swords Dance, it is virtually unstoppable once it sets up. It can be defeated, but it is a REALLY difficult job, especially in the sand. Latios: Don't Ban Same as Latias. Among such a heavily offensive metagame, I think that the Lati@s have lost their significant threats. Soul Dew's absence also makes matters worse for both of them, so they are more easily managed now. Manaphy: Ban Honestly, Manaphy has received perhaps two of the greatest boosts this generation: Tail Glow's modified effect and Drizzle. Manaphy has great 100-all stats, and Tail Glow further increases Manaphy's special attack by 3 stages at once, making it reach sky high levels. Rest + Hydration under the rain allow it to instantly recover any damage done to it, and its 100/100/100 defenses make it even harder to be taken down. Shaymin-S: Ban I still can't believe that they are actually considering Shaymin-S in OU. A special attack of 120 coupled with a blistering speed of 127 makes it a very dangerous special sweeper which, again, outruns a large portion of the metagame. Now, this is not only what makes Shaymin-S such a big threat; Serene Grace makes Air Slash's flinch effect rise to 60%, while Seed Flare's chance of decreasing the opponent's special defense by 2 stages rise to 80%! Do not forget that Shaymin-S also gets STAB on both of the attacks, and has acceptable 100/75/75 defenses. |
Drizzle should NOT be banned, if they are going to ban Drizzle, they might as well ban Hippo and T-tar. I am a strong believer in thinking no team is perfect and all teams have weaknesses, you just need to exploit these weaknesses and use them to your advantage, like for rain dance teams, use the rain to your advantage, if you run bulky water types, spam water type attacks, you have the boost. If you ever run a bulky water type, get Vaporeon because Hydration is cheap. Also Shandera may guarantee a KO in most matches, but u-turn/volt Change can escape shadow tag, and if you're running a fighting type, try and sneak a Sucker Punch, it tends to OHKO after rocks. also, Rain dance teams weaken shandera so it's not entirely cheap. Wobbuffet on the other hand, should be put into ubers, no shadow tag pokemon should be extremely bulky, also Ditto should be put in ubers because it can counter any pokemon and is probably the best late game sweeper in the game. When your building black/white teams, you should build your teams in a way that can counter most of the "cheap" pokemon.
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Ditto deserves to be in OU. It is funny how it was NU and now people want it to be with Ubers. Just sayin'!
Anyway, Hippowdon and Tyranitar are less threatening than Drizzle since Rain abusers are far more dangerous. Excluding Sand Throw, the only way to abuse sand is Sand Power and the unreliable Sand Veil. Comparing it with Swift Swimmers, Rain Dishers, Hydrationers and Dry Skinners, Rain is more dangerous. Oh, and let us not forget Toxicroak. |
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Anyways, there's no way someone can argue that rain has become more dangerous than sand in Gen V. Almost all competitive battlers agree that Sandstorm still reigns over the other weather teams, especially with the addition of Doryuuzu. Really, even in the rain, rain abusers can still be relatively easily defeated. However, Doryuuzu's doubled speed (which is faster than any common rain abuser's speed) as well as Swords Dance in the sand make him virtually non-stoppable by any means. Also, would you mind telling me which Pokémon exactly has Hydration and is commonly used? Manaphy is probably going to be banned to the Uber tier, and Dewgong and Phione are NEVER used in rain teams. Only Ludicolo has Rain Dish, and he is rarely ever seen with this ability over the much more important Swift Swim. We therefore come to the realization that only Swift Swimmers and Toxicroak are used in rain teams to abuse the rain. How about Sandstorm? Sand Strength increases the power of Ground, Rock and Steel moves by 33%, which makes Landlos' STAB Earthquake and Stone Edge much deadlier (often regarded as an excellent combo). With a trollish speed stat of 101, it can outrun all base 100's and possibly set up with Swords Dance to increase its great attack stat of 125. This sheer power is not common in Rain Dance teams, who often have to rely on average or mediocre Pokémon to defeat their opponents. |
You are basically referring to Gen IV with some of your analyzes. If Drizzle stays, then Rain Dance teams can get better strategies than the basic Swift Swimming strategy. Even with just following the Swift Swim strategy, with Drizzle, more Swift Swimmers can be used now. We also have to consider the Rain Dance setters, who are quite popular and quite bulky to set up Rain Dance several times. Although Sandstorm can be set up by several Pokémon, yet you can't find enough useful ones to set it up. Yes, Sandstorm is the most dangerous weather move so far, but Hippowdon and Tyranitar don't deserve to be banned since it is also agreed that the abusers of Rain Dance are more. Garchomp, Doryuzu (who is most probably is going to be banned to Ubers), Gliscor and Landlos are the main if not the only good sand abusers. While in terms of rain, it is Kingdra, Ludicolo, Gorebyss, Kabutops, Quilfish, the new toad. There are dream world abusers as well. Those are Swift Swimmers, while ignoring the rest. So in terms of number, rain abusers are more, and there is no deny that despite that fact that some of them are frail, once they start sweeping you can hardly stop them. In other words, Hippowdon and Tyranitar are less threatening to be considered as Ubers.
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Personally, I really hope drizzle doesn't get banned. I think these new weather users allow for a lot more pokemon to shine and politoed is clearly not as broken as kyogre.
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Oh, and I REALLY like what Spirit said about how Swift Swim isn't all you should pay attention to in this gen. After all this talk I tried out a rain team, and tried some of the more uncommon options, and found that Dry Skin Jynx (Toxicroak isn't the only one) works a lot like Breloom would. Substitute, sleep move, and 1/8 health restoration at the end of the turn is just as annoying even when its not coming from Breloom. So yeah, Swift Swim isn't all that can be abused in the rain, I found. |
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If we want to follow Lucario's usefulness' philosophy in Sand, then we have got to say that all water types with no exception do abuse Rain since their water moves gain both STAB and 50% boost from Rain.
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I NEVER mentioned that EVERY Ground, Rock or Steel type Pokémon is useful in a Sandstorm team. Simply, I was referring to what Smogon mentions in one of its articles, and frankly, they probably know more than what I or you do. |
I just had a thought. Don`t ban Doryuuzu to Ubers, just ban the ability Sand Throw/Paddle/Shovel. That ability makes it broken-ish, but Sand Power is usable without being unstoppable (and is much more useful for my team, anyway), so I`d prefer just having the ability itself banned for use in Ubers only.
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The voting on the suspect Pokémon is done, and I'm incredibly pleased to say that my votes (along with Spirit's) were almost 100% right:
Darkrai: 49 Bans, 1 Do Not Ban, and 1 Abstain (98%) Final judgment: BANNED Deoxys-A: 46 Bans, 2 Do Not Bans, and 3 Abstains (95.8%) Final judgment: BANNED Deoxys-N: 28 Bans, 11 Do Not Bans, and 12 Abstains (71.8%) Final judgment: BANNED Doryuuzu: 16 Bans, 27 Do Not Bans, and 8 Abstains (37.2%) Final judgment: PASSED (can be re-nominated next round, though) Latios: 7 Bans, 38 Do Not Bans, and 6 Abstains (15.5%) Final judgment: PASSED (can be re-nominated next round, though) Manaphy: 26 Bans, 17 Do Not Bans, and 8 Abstains (60.5%) Final judgment: MOVED TO ROUND 2 Shaymin-S: 51 Bans, 0 Do Not Bans, and 0 Abstains (100%!) Final judgment: BANNED (with a complete agreement between the voters!) |
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