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  #1  
Old June 23, 2012, 02:52:28 AM
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Default YouTube is shooting itself in the foot, and I honestly know why

YouTube is dead. It's not the biennial layout changes. It's not the removal of star ratings and replacement with thumbs up and thumbs down. It's not the moving of comments, video responses, or ratings. It's not the promotion of subscriber counts over video quality (but I think that plays a part). It's not the copyright mess. It's not the upgrades to stereo sound, widescreen format, or high definition. It's not the removal of features that users had actually enjoyed. It's this: the YouTube Partner Program.

Looking back, I strongly believe that the YouTube Partner Program killed YouTube, and it's funny how soon it happened after Google bought YouTube: May 3, 2007, a mere few months later. By December, they opened the program up to applications from anyone. Starting only a couple years ago, YouTube just kept giving out too many partnerships to those who had very poor quality videos. Later, they allowed networks to issue these partnerships on their own will. Blinded by money, they handed these out to people will fewer views than ever. Now we have partnerships left and right as everyone continues to want their piece of the YouTube pie.

I found this gem on the YouTube Blog when they announced YouTube Partner:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DandCVideos
This cash cow will only bring sour milk in the end. Bring in automatic participation for all because it is the whole which makes up YouTube. Oh yes you can fill in a partnership lead form and bring along your tin can in hopes that you will be accepted. But don't go buying a large piggy bank any day now because it is sure to never get filled.
May 4, 2007 2:24 AM
Notice the date? All Google wanted was money then. All Google wants is money now. YouTube sucks.

Oh, and one of my accounts with exactly 17 video views over the last five years is a partner. Guess nobody gives a crap who they let on board anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndrome (The Incredibles)
Oh, I'm real, real enough to defeat you! And I did it without your precious gifts, your oh-so special powers. I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics anyone's ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so that everyone can be superheroes. Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super, no one will be.
  #2  
Old June 23, 2012, 03:37:34 AM
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Cat are you trying to tell me that a corporation is only interested in money and nothing else

Also most random quoting ever.

Last edited by Magmaster12; June 23, 2012 at 03:37:54 AM.
  #3  
Old June 23, 2012, 05:04:11 AM
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More of Cat's ranting about YT. Just what I've always wanted.

Of course Google wants money and nothing else. They give these Partnerships away like candy so they can put more ads on more videos in an attempt to get more people to click on said ads so Google can get a piece of the ad revenue. The more ads around YT, the more likely people will click on it, the more money Google makes. If Google was smarter, they would give Partnerships out only to those with a subscriber count in the thousands, maybe even a 10,000 subscriber minimum, so they don't have to waste money on smaller channels that are partnered with them.

But the greedier you are for money (like Google), the less likely you are to see obvious flaws and mistakes in your plan for money.

EDIT: By the way, YT isn't dead, it's corrupt. There is a big difference there.

Last edited by Quadcentruo; June 23, 2012 at 05:17:46 AM.
  #4  
Old June 23, 2012, 10:46:53 AM
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Yes! YouTube is dead! Of course they don't care about video quality! I think that the only people who deserve a YouTube Partnership are the people with a decent number of high quality YouTube videos, and a good amount of subscribers. Yes, Partnerships should represent power. This means you'd have to work for it. That would probably why I won't become a Partner any time soon, as my YouTube Channel is crap right now.
  #5  
Old June 23, 2012, 12:57:02 PM
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I see YouTube as a place to upload independent content, no matter how crud it is. I don't know how far will that shockwave of partership will spread. Partnership will be a status symbol to separate people apart, but as more and more people get partnerships, the status distinction will lost, but the low status of not having a partnership still exist, so the partnership inflated, just like academic inflation.

The bigger issue is that I cannot preview how many likes and dislikes a video has before viewing it. YouTube implemented it for a reason (citation: an anti-Viacom channel): Videos that advertise a product. Also, mobile device discrimination means some videos cannot be viewed on mobile. Reason: Mobile devices do not support in-video ads.
  #6  
Old June 23, 2012, 01:29:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcentruo View Post
More of Cat's ranting about YT. Just what I've always wanted.
You know me well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceManPlusPlus View Post
The bigger issue is that I cannot preview how many likes and dislikes a video has before viewing it. YouTube implemented it for a reason (citation: an anti-Viacom channel): Videos that advertise a product. Also, mobile device discrimination means some videos cannot be viewed on mobile. Reason: Mobile devices do not support in-video ads.
Yeah, I specifically remember when the ads in the upper-right corner (remember when they were just standard video ads?) had ratings below them, and it almost always had a rating of 2 stars or lower. Some very well-made ads occasionally had a 3 or higher, but it seems that folks don't know how to make commercials these days. The well-made ones are typically never seen in pre-roll; you actually have to go searching for them (presumably after you see them on TV), and most of those have about 95% likes. See folks, it really does matter where the ads are placed.

Interestingly, though, back to the original point, I actually don't really see a rating system on the ads anymore, so the original purpose of hiding ratings no longer really matters, except maybe when they promote a video link to a commercial.

Last edited by Cat333Pokémon; June 23, 2012 at 01:30:11 PM. Reason: I cannnot speel
  #7  
Old June 23, 2012, 01:39:57 PM
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Now that's interesting. I never noticed the increase in partnerships, but if that's actually what's happening, then alright. But why say that Youtube is "dead" just because they've diminished the value of having partnership? The site seems alive and well to me. I can still get all the entertainment I did out of Youtube as before partnership, and so can everyone else. Is there an abundance of ads that just completely ruins the site? That's just a small setback that's by no means unfamiliar to the internet.

I'll consider Youtube dead when it ceases to exist.
  #8  
Old June 23, 2012, 04:31:47 PM
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Youtube is indeed dead, corrupt, de-valued, whatever spin you want to put on it. Point is, Youtube is not the same anymore ever since Google came into the picture. Youtube is actually the sole reason why I installed (insert name of program that blocks ads here) onto my browser. >_>

I miss the old Youtube. Not just 5 star ratings and older layouts, but what the old Youtube presented - individuality. People uploading clips of themselves doing silly/stupid things for our entertainment, funny animal related videos, etc. Youtube just doesn't have that same unique feeling anymore.

Last edited by Cyrus; June 23, 2012 at 04:32:27 PM.
  #9  
Old June 23, 2012, 06:20:36 PM
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So youtube gives partnerships to people with cruddy videos. So...... this is bad, why? A business is trying to make money. You don't say! They make money by giving partnerships to people so more ads can be clicked. Alright. They give a little bit of money to those people for letting them use their videos as a means of making money. What's wrong with that?

Who cares if they partner cruddy people? Does that affect your view count at all? No. Even if junk channels get partnered, what harm is it to you? You've all said that those partners have cruddy videos. If it's cruddy, who is going to watch it? Have you heard of survival of the fittest? It's that simple. Cruddy videos don't get watched, whether they're partnered or not. From what I understand about partnerships, they get paid based on video views. You can't pay someone that gets no views.

As for the "when everyone is super, no one is" analogy, that doesn't hold true. Cruddy videos are not super videos. The partner title doesn't affect that. And as for the ads, are people really so impatient anymore that they can't sit through a 15 second ad, or wait five seconds to skip a three minute one? Are they so lazy that they can't hit the little 'x' to hide the ad? Even I can do that without complaining!
  #10  
Old June 23, 2012, 06:25:29 PM
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Well, do remember, I do enjoy ranting, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. I do agree with parts of what you just said, notably the part about being lazy/impatient. The "YouTube is dead" is mostly for impact, anyway.

Last edited by Cat333Pokémon; June 23, 2012 at 06:25:49 PM.
  #11  
Old June 23, 2012, 06:53:22 PM
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It always bugs me when I can't watch a video on my phone. I'm nearly never on my laptop, so the fact that I'm not allowed to watch certain videos because I'm on mobile really sucks... But YouTube isn't dead. Oh and that Incredibles quotation is very relevant, I loved when he said that.
  #12  
Old June 23, 2012, 07:45:57 PM
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As much as I hate to say bad things about YouTube when Cat is near or involved, I'll say a little part of what I think.
YouTube used to be a place for the video makers and the people who simply just wanted to watch the occasional funny. But then Google stepped in with the idea of cash in mind, and changed everything until it wasn't like the old YouTube anymore.
And I hate ads, and I ESPECIALLY hate Vevo.
  #13  
Old June 23, 2012, 08:25:31 PM
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As a Youtube watcher, I have few problems with Youtube. Like the users, I don't comment because that's a waste of my time. Oh, and it may be that other video sites like Vimeo, Hulu or whatever will take over the market if Youtube does get worse and worse. In other news, I miss those old videos on my likes list; the copyright stuff destroyed the parodies.

Anyway, I like the service, and the videos are still good when I find good ones.
  #14  
Old June 24, 2012, 12:53:24 AM
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It is an exaggeration to consider it "dead" when millions are using it daily. True, its services are getting worse and the old-fashioned Youtube, which we enjoyed is gone. Nevertheless, Youtube remains a vital necessity in our daily internet life, and so it remains very much alive!
  #15  
Old June 24, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
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While it is true that the YouTube of today is not as good or user-friendly as the YouTube of yesterday, I don't think "dead" fits this right. Maybe something more like "dying" or "in a downfall."
But I understand you just need to express your sheer HATRED of the site and put FEROCITY behind your words while doing so. Mmm hmm.
  #16  
Old June 24, 2012, 07:31:58 PM
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Why are their partnerships anyways? Seriously...this partnering and commercial crap is starting to get old because now YouTube is going to turn into MySpace, old and abandoned. Most of the time forgotten...
  #17  
Old June 24, 2012, 08:42:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pichu62 View Post
Why are their partnerships anyways? Seriously...this partnering and commercial crap is starting to get old because now YouTube is going to turn into MySpace, old and abandoned. Most of the time forgotten...
My original thought was so that they could reward the hard working YouTubers who are very popular and have top notch videos. Now, I don't really even know anymore...
  #18  
Old June 25, 2012, 12:54:20 AM
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There are still people I watch regularly on youtube, and I visit the site often because of the videos there. Sad fact is the ones I usually like are the ones that get shut down the most by copyright claims, real or not.

When a company gets to a certain size, they start to think they're too big to fail, so the value of the customer ceases to exist. We're nothing but money to them. Our feedback, complaints, criticism, and proposals to help them get better doesn't apply to them. They forget who helped them get here and often they bite the hand that feeds them. They turn into these nasty, avaricious, selfish, callous, corporate giants who have no respect for hard-working people like the little guys. Sites like youtube completely forget about the Fair Use policy and shut down videos like its a crime to watch them.

I have nothing against corporations making a profit, but companies like Youtube, Google, Facebook, and others have got to get their act together and leave the little guy alone.
  #19  
Old June 25, 2012, 06:24:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pichu62 View Post
Why are their partnerships anyways? Seriously...this partnering and commercial crap is starting to get old because now YouTube is going to turn into MySpace, old and abandoned. Most of the time forgotten...
Partnerships are supposed to be for what Turt said: Popular YouTubers. Now it's for anyone who wants it that has the rights pretty much.

I wish YouTubers were more like me: I don't want to have a partnership until I have 10,000 subscribers or until I'm offered one by someone like TGS. Having 10K subscribers (that aren't from sub4sub places) is a good sign of the quality of your videos, and so is being offered a partnership from bigger partners.
  #20  
Old June 25, 2012, 01:40:52 PM
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I've changed the thread title to lessen the impact to my more honest opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pichu62 View Post
YouTube is going to turn into MySpace, old and abandoned. Most of the time forgotten...
This is pretty much what I see could happen, but something would have to come along and replace YouTube before it turns into MySpace 3.0.
  #21  
Old June 25, 2012, 04:52:32 PM
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Of course their only concern is making money. Do you think they're able to provide a service which is 22% of global bandwidth without expenses? Not only do they have to cover costs, their concern is making money. If they weren't making a profit, they'd be breaking even or losing money. That's not a very good business model. It's always been about making a profit. I'm sorry if this is a shock to anyone, but businesses do not offer services because they enjoy doing it; it is done out of self interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest
This is not a bad thing, either. If they were doing poorly, people would stop providing them business. Google's main concern is the concerns of share holders ( those who invest in Google expect a return and growth, not to lose their money ) and customers ( read: advertisers ). You play a role by watching videos, uploading, and viewing the advertisements. If you do not like how they conduct business, stop being their customer. Google will have to keep its customers happy or they will stop receiving business.

One negative aspect I can speak of is a lack of competition in its specific market. Youtube does not have much of a threat when it comes to rival services. Knowing internet trends, it's only a matter of time before the next big thing knocks it off of the top of the hill.
  #22  
Old June 25, 2012, 07:16:54 PM
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Being a YouTuber since '07, I can safely say I'm glad Google has changed the physical design of the site. However, in terms of the partnership program, I agree with you completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon View Post
Now we have partnerships left and right as everyone continues to want their piece of the YouTube pie.
That right there is 100% true. Everyone I see on YouTube is either trying to immediately become partnered, or trying to get subscribers the wrong way to get the automatic system to come to them and say "EARN REVENUE OFF OF YOUR VIDEOS APPLY FOR PARTNER TODAY GOOGLE ADSENSE".
Frankly, I don't have a problem if you're earning money from your videos, that's not my business. But if you're gonna go around saying "sub4sub" to everyone just so you can be "noticed" then no, I don't support you.
  #23  
Old June 30, 2012, 04:51:45 PM
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Shocking surprise for me (your response may be "duh"): YouTube got movies you can pay for. I am going to never use it.

I go to YouTube to see free, amateur, independent, crud, funny (at least one) videos.

Last edited by Cat333Pokémon; December 8, 2013 at 09:39:01 PM.
  #24  
Old July 2, 2012, 02:12:20 AM
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What I hate about YouTube is their "add as contact" crap, "add as friend" was much better, it's so ***** I hate it, there was star-ratings? Well I didn't know that!

Last edited by Cat333Pokémon; July 3, 2012 at 05:24:46 PM.
  #25  
Old July 16, 2012, 06:55:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcentruo View Post
Partnerships are supposed to be for what Turt said: Popular YouTubers. Now it's for anyone who wants it that has the rights pretty much.

I wish YouTubers were more like me: I don't want to have a partnership until I have 10,000 subscribers or until I'm offered one by someone like TGS. Having 10K subscribers (that aren't from sub4sub places) is a good sign of the quality of your videos, and so is being offered a partnership from bigger partners.
I'm digging this idea...

Then again, there is a difference between being a popular Youtube and having videos liked by almost everyone who watches them. This is probably why I don't like Shane Dawson or Ray William Johnson. Sure, they're insanely popular with millions of subscribers, but I've only watched about 5 videos from each...and liked about 2 of them. Everyone has their opinions...so you like SD and/or RWJ. I'm not judging you.

But people like the Angry Video Game Nerd have proven that you can be both very entertaining AND popular at the same time. Not only do the videos themselves have tons of effort put into them, but James really does his research on what he's reviewing, and his analysis I find impressive. I think his videos are genuinely funny and I get a good laugh every time I watch him review a video game.

Some of the people whose videos I like to watch on Youtube have only ~1,000 subscribers. And I guess a single thousand, according to Google, is quality enough to them to offer you a partnership. And in some cases, they'll just keep going at you until you give in; you could only have 1,000 subs, but the view count on each of your videos could be 500-5,000. Then, there's that one landmine video on your channel with millions of views.

I don't even have a Youtube account yet...but I'm inclined to think that the way the Youtube Partnership Program is run, it could be run by a wild Aipom that somehow broke into (or got adopted by) Google HQ and decided to put on a suit and tie...or someone similar. But, that's how I see it. I guess the program would be useful to you if you really wanted the oppurtunity, but I think it's pointless for the most part.

As for Youtube itself, I don't mind any of these changes. Sure, it isn't what it used to be, but it's not "dead" yet until some media conglomerate gets legal authority to shut it down for good and dig it a nice grave. And even then, we have DailyMotion, Google Video, MetaCafe and other places to go to if we want to watch a video, and will probably become the norm in about 50 years tops. Think of it as "an attempt to fill in a giant hole left by probably the most popular video-sharing website of all time".

These are just my thoughts on the matter.
  #26  
Old July 17, 2012, 02:03:36 AM
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The AVGN is definitely a great example of doing things the right way on YouTube, but he left once he got a contract with ScrewAttack as the exclusive provider of new videos.
  #27  
Old July 17, 2012, 03:23:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon View Post
The AVGN is definitely a great example of doing things the right way on YouTube, but he left once he got a contract with ScrewAttack as the exclusive provider of new videos.
Is he still making videos?

And I'll admit, the example I provided was a little bit obvious.
  #28  
Old July 17, 2012, 03:28:54 AM
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Yes, but he is currently working on a feature length movie, so he's been busy.
  #29  
Old July 17, 2012, 03:16:59 PM
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I know a relatively popular LPer (hovering around 10K subs at the moment) who's been offered partnership via various gaming outlets like TGS, and once or twice by YouTube. He's declined multiple times, as he only wants to LP for the good of LPing, not for money or ratings or fame.
  #30  
Old April 4, 2014, 03:43:31 PM
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So this thread is a bit old, but it's still interesting so I'll write my little wall of text anyway.

Pre-Google YouTube was way before my time, so I don't know what things were like back then, but the way I see it YouTube's worth is 100% composed of the people who use it. Google just hosts the files and owns the URL and makes changes that people love to complain about but few actually hate and everything.

Maybe I'm biased because I'm one of the undertalented partner people (you could say I'm part of the reason Cat left the place, tee hee?) I do remember when they dropped the hammer on the program and from what I've seen, there's just as much good stuff there now as there was then, and just as much bad stuff now as there was then. Sure, you get bad eggs on Reddit and in high school who say they're going to start playing Call of Duty tomorrow so they don't have to go to college, but realistically their odds of that are about that of becoming a professional athlete. Once in a while you get people griping that they do indeed have 30 subs but can't afford a car yet. I could reel off a few more statistics, but for now I'll just say that there are so many active channels on YouTube that having to deal with a few bad, stupid and/or big-headed ones is not a problem. I can always watch someone else.

And people will. Like a few people said above, there is no direct link between being part of the partner program and getting attention. Channels get big because they appeal to people, one way or another, not because they passed a test.

I'll back up a few more steps. Any old person directly (and probably not) making money off making videos through ads really doesn't bother me. On YouTube you get a 30-second, usually skippable ad on a 12-minute video and a closable banner. Other web sites run ads that have, historically and repeatedly, crashed my computer. I avoid television itself because you get 15 about 15 minutes of commercial per hour. YouTube's ad system most certainly feels like the lesser of many evils.

Even their back-end promotion system, which few people seem to know about but almost everyone who does despises, doesn't really bother me. Yes, you are free to promote Pewdiepie and Smosh as many times a day as you wish. It's your web site. However, it's not going to make me think they're any less of an idiot (while we're talking about untalented big-names). The major complaints are that it's a rich-get-richer mirror of capitalism where small channels brimming with talent get next to no exposure, but unlike real life there are other (and, honestly, better) ways for someone like that to get noticed.

Back to what I was saying at the beginning, as long as the web site works, they don't break any laws and there are talented users who I watch, I'm going to keep using it and I doubt it'll die. Like it or not, they have a damn good system, they do update it periodically and there's a reason it's so drastically pulled ahead of other video-sharing web sites.

And at the end of the day, I've encountered way more awesome people through YouTube than knuckleheads.

Stats for nerds    

YouTube doesn't willingly give us some of their more interesting usage stats for whatever reason, and a few of the ones here are constantly changing anyway so it probably wouldn't make much of a difference if they did. Hence, most of these are estimates.

- Socialblade tracks about two million channels with five subscribers or more, and that only represents a small fraction of the total. Of those, only a *thousand or so can comfortably pay rent off YouTube.

- It varies depending on the advertising industry's calendar, but from what I know from talking to people and first-hand experience a thousand views net you about a dollar and a half. Your stereotypical thirteen year old armed with Minecraft, cracked Vegas and no skill in either isn't going anywhere.

- It's the third largest web site in the world. One way or another it's going to take a long time for the entire user base to get corrupted and/or no longer be profitable for Google to operate.

 
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