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  #1  
Old July 3, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
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Default Piracy versus theft. Which is more serious of a crime?

A very large issue facing the music and movie industry today is piracy and theft. Piracy is the act of illegally downloading the material while theft is physically stealing the hardware of a CD, movie, etc. and all the content inside the hardware. As of right now, Piracy is considered a more serious crime than Theft (meaning you'd be charged more severely if you were caught in the act of Piracy), even though you aren't technically stealing from the company directly with piracy. However, Piracy does cause a company to have a lowered amount of sales than expected.

Which is the more serious of a crime? Piracy because it causes lower sales or Theft because it's taking hardware from a company? Or are they equally as serious?
  #2  
Old July 3, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
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Let me put it this way, using a less stupid metaphor:
You mass produce a bunch of games, and it cost around $200 to do so. A friend borrows a copy.
Theft: The borrowed copy is never returned, and you lose that one sale. You have to make up for it out of your pocket.
Piracy: The borrowed copy is returned, but the data has also been ripped. So the person with the data sends it to other people, who send it to their friends, who send it to THEIR friends in an endless cycle. A lot less money is made than expected, causing even more lost profits.
Theft can only occur once at a time. No security is bad enough that something would get stolen that many times. And half the time, the person gets caught, and the material is returned or something. With Piracy, it's from the comforts of your home, in a closed room, and it's like a silent but deadly threat, spreading like wildfire. Piracy is simply easier and less risky than theft.
  #3  
Old July 3, 2012, 11:32:43 PM
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It is really hard to give an unbiased account when you are, somehow, integrated in piracy.

Theft is unquestionably wrong, since you are stealing the physical component, like the album, which was going to be sold. But when it comes to piracy, before saying which one is worse, you need to ask how bad piracy is. I mean it has its excuses, and honestly, they are reasonable enough.

For example, not all people can afford buying music albums or film DVDs. In some parts of the world, these things don't reach them in the first place, either because they are in a less advanced country, or because their government is too strict and has banned them. Plus, how harmful is this piracy? Is it causing major losses to companies? If you take Microsoft as an example, there is no doubt that pirated copies of Windows spread all over the world. However, Bill Gates remain as one of the richest people in the world. Of course, if these pirated copies disappear, his wealth would increase, but do you honestly think that commoners can't afford buying a genuine copy of Windows or Microsoft Office? They can't.

The way I think about is that it is true that piracy decreases the wealth of companies, but they are not facing a crisis in their life. However, those who are suffering in their lives can afford their genuine copies, so they prefer the pirated copies, in order to have a fair chance to experience music, films or even know how a computer works.

Last edited by The Spirit of Time; July 4, 2012 at 11:54:47 AM.
  #4  
Old July 4, 2012, 03:08:34 AM
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This topic's title is confusing, so I can only assume it's dealing with the theft of some physical object opposed to data. Both will be harmful since any business not making a profit will experience shrink. I'd say it's more wrong and harmful to smaller projects and businesses. Some small ma and pa shop would be less able to write off a loss than a large retail chain could.

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Originally Posted by The Spirit of Time View Post
If you take Microsoft as an example, there is no doubt that pirated copies of Windows spread all over the world. However, Bill Gates remain as one of the richest people in the world.
Bill Gates and Microsoft are not only common bogeymen, but bad examples. A large company is less likely to feel the effects of piracy. It's the little guy who is actually harmed by it and secures that monopolies hold their place.

Let's say you and a couple of friends were to come up with a new idea and apply it. You've created a new game, program, whatever. After all of your efforts, there's little gain for your time and efforts if nobody actually buys the product. If there's no protections and somebody makes it widely available, there's little you can do.

A larger company like Microsoft or Apple is capable of having their product placed in areas, selling licenses ( imagine all of the computers sold with a Windows OS ), and have the financial clout to provide anti-piracy measures.

That's why I make sure to support small software projects or indy games I like. It's good to keep the incentive around for new ideas.

Last edited by hinorashi; July 4, 2012 at 03:08:54 AM.
  #5  
Old July 4, 2012, 11:44:34 AM
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What I'm gonna say here has probably already been said, either last night on VRIM before the creation of this thread, or by people posting before me.

Theft

Theft is the more identifiable act, being where the consumer simply takes a piece of merchandise without paying for it. While this directly damages the profits of a company, from lost profit, only 1 physical copy is removed from a US-centered, Europe-centered, or even world-centered base of operations. On very few occasions, up to 5 or more copies may be stolen at once, but the more copies that are stolen leads to a higher rate of being caught. Because of the fact that actual, hard copies of the information are being taken, many people consider this to be the more serious crime.

Piracy

Piracy is a more recent crime, which is centered around Internet media. This crime is much simpler to pull off, because you don't have to sneak past people with jacket pockets full to bursting. It only requires you to download the media that someone else has purchased, ripped off the CD/DVD, and put on the Internet for all to see. Some people that use this method don't even know that it's illegal. This kind of crime doesn't immediately present a threat to a company's profits. With time, however, the number of people that download the pirated media will take away a chunk of their profits. This is because piracy is a crime that multiplies exponentially. As more people are exposed to the free media, they will tell other people about it. If they have a blog, any followers of the blog can follow them straight to it. Just about the only thing you need to pirate is access to the Internet, which means it is spread wider and wider every day. Obviously, if you pirate, you're not going to buy a physical copy of the media just to have a matching pair. Because of the number of people opting for pirated versions instead of paying money for a physical copy, the companies producing the media are losing money. This isn't the case in some examples, like a thing that wasn't released in a specific area (i.e. Mother 3 Fan Translation), because the companies never put it out there. No matter how many people own those pirated copies in those areas, the companies will not lose money because they never had that money in the first place. This version of piracy, however, only consists of a small percent of the whole piracy issue.

Overall

In a 1 to 1 ratio, theft and piracy would be on even ground. The amount of damage dome is the same (someone doesn't buy the media), and in both instances, one disc will need to be replaced. However, in today's technology-powered world, that simply is not the case. While theft is still a crime that is pretty common today, it usually doesn't involve media, and piracy still outnumbers it by a lot. To many people today, the Internet is the gateway to free songs, albums, or movies. As I previously said, the only prerequisite to piracy is access to the Internet. As its tentacles spread farther and wider, it becomes ever so harder to gauge how much damage has been done by the people that decide to pirate instead of buying any one product every day. Whether it's an outcry by the government to stop pirating materials, or a result of the bigtime companies leaning on the judicial systems, piracy has become the far worse crime in today's world. Personally, I can understand why it is as well.
  #6  
Old January 15, 2014, 05:43:26 PM
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Lol, I'm not gonna say they had it coming, but they had it coming. Why would you let people have CD/DVD Burners/Rips and not expect them to use them and spread the free content? It was pretty much a chain of things.

Thing is, these big companies will continue making their gains and really just want to ensure every cent goes to their accounts. Nothing wrong with that, their entitled to it since they made it. If this were also true, I don't see why stores that sell used products aren't stopped since profits of those licensed materials are not going to their original owners, usually.

Theft itself (physically) is a huge problem, especially for clothes designers. They lose BILLIONS on shoplifters, so I can see why the music industry is pissed. Hell, I'd be pissed if I didn't get my billion dollar share, even though I'm already wealthy as can be! *I'm biased, I know. FREE STUFF FTW! SCREW THE RICH!*


Edit: If artists would sell their music themselves (really hard to pull, especially nowadays), I'm hopeful people would actually buy it because it's directly from the ones who actually do the work. I would. o.o I'm not a fan of big companies at all. They're *insert foul word here*.

Edit 2: Theft is the more serious crime as it can quickly lead to being a Robbery or Aggravated Robbery (Texas codes).

Last edited by Sub-zero; January 15, 2014 at 05:48:04 PM.
  #7  
Old January 16, 2014, 05:17:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
Lol, I'm not gonna say they had it coming, but they had it coming. Why would you let people have CD/DVD Burners/Rips and not expect them to use them and spread the free content? It was pretty much a chain of things.

Thing is, these big companies will continue making their gains and really just want to ensure every cent goes to their accounts. Nothing wrong with that, their entitled to it since they made it. If this were also true, I don't see why stores that sell used products aren't stopped since profits of those licensed materials are not going to their original owners, usually.

Theft itself (physically) is a huge problem, especially for clothes designers. They lose BILLIONS on shoplifters, so I can see why the music industry is pissed. Hell, I'd be pissed if I didn't get my billion dollar share, even though I'm already wealthy as can be! *I'm biased, I know. FREE STUFF FTW! SCREW THE RICH!*


Edit: If artists would sell their music themselves (really hard to pull, especially nowadays), I'm hopeful people would actually buy it because it's directly from the ones who actually do the work. I would. o.o I'm not a fan of big companies at all. They're *insert foul word here*.

Edit 2: Theft is the more serious crime as it can quickly lead to being a Robbery or Aggravated Robbery (Texas codes).
Well if it weren't for those rip/burn programs we wouldn't be able to make and share our own garage experiments. We are a mixed market. Marketed CDs have protection written on them, but programs constantly get updates to bypass them, so it's strange. The way our "rights" work is incredibly strange. After purchase of something physical we own that much of it, and from there you can do with it what you will as long it's not the distribution of illicit copies, so that includes resale. Companies aren't concerned about making a profit off the same unit multiple times. And on companies, people look towards them because they're a foundation. An indie artist would have a harder time getting known than someone who signed to a label. The Beatles wouldn't be a worldwide sensation if not for Mr. Epstein and Apple.

Piracy is more serious in a companies eyes as they can lose profits exponentially in just a day. Theft is more painful to anyone in the area if you consider the consequences of trying to stop one. But while theft is usually detected as a person leaves a store, many instances of piracy go totally unnoticed.
  #8  
Old January 16, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
Well if it weren't for those rip/burn programs we wouldn't be able to make and share our own garage experiments. We are a mixed market. Marketed CDs have protection written on them, but programs constantly get updates to bypass them, so it's strange. The way our "rights" work is incredibly strange. After purchase of something physical we own that much of it, and from there you can do with it what you will as long it's not the distribution of illicit copies, so that includes resale. Companies aren't concerned about making a profit off the same unit multiple times. And on companies, people look towards them because they're a foundation. An indie artist would have a harder time getting known than someone who signed to a label. The Beatles wouldn't be a worldwide sensation if not for Mr. Epstein and Apple.

Piracy is more serious in a companies eyes as they can lose profits exponentially in just a day. Theft is more painful to anyone in the area if you consider the consequences of trying to stop one. But while theft is usually detected as a person leaves a store, many instances of piracy go totally unnoticed.
Regardless, that just proves how society is changing, and, IMO, it is much, much lamer. And besides, with the internet, an indie artist could make themselves known pretty well. Of course, after the internet, you gotta sign your soul to who knows what company in order to get your work known out in "the real world". Bureaucratic, honestly. That's what it's about. MONEY MONEY MONEY! I'm sure it didn't start out that way, but that's pretty much how it is now.

And exactly. Like I said, companies like that don't like losing their billions, even though they already make them. I honestly don't see how any of this will be seriously combated when regular internet users can and sometimes are exceptional hackers, regardless how much security the gov't will want to put on the internet. Theft can be handled (though, from my perspective, physical theft is a much worse problem than taking care of big name companies), but piracy... I dunno.

I know internet crimes are getting flagged by the law now and are being controlled better, but I really don't know if online security will pass. We've already seen it fall and everyone opposes it. I don't see anyone who likes downloading music going in favor of something like SOPA. And even if they did, like you said Turtwig, programs will just get updated and the data will result stolen regardless. And I, for one, am ok with that. xD Screw bureaucracy!
  #9  
Old January 16, 2014, 07:20:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
Regardless, that just proves how society is changing, and, IMO, it is much, much lamer. And besides, with the internet, an indie artist could make themselves known pretty well. Of course, after the internet, you gotta sign your soul to who knows what company in order to get your work known out in "the real world". Bureaucratic, honestly. That's what it's about. MONEY MONEY MONEY! I'm sure it didn't start out that way, but that's pretty much how it is now.

And exactly. Like I said, companies like that don't like losing their billions, even though they already make them. I honestly don't see how any of this will be seriously combated when regular internet users can and sometimes are exceptional hackers, regardless how much security the gov't will want to put on the internet. Theft can be handled (though, from my perspective, physical theft is a much worse problem than taking care of big name companies), but piracy... I dunno.

I know internet crimes are getting flagged by the law now and are being controlled better, but I really don't know if online security will pass. We've already seen it fall and everyone opposes it. I don't see anyone who likes downloading music going in favor of something like SOPA. And even if they did, like you said Turtwig, programs will just get updated and the data will result stolen regardless. And I, for one, am ok with that. xD Screw bureaucracy!
The internet is a great place for people to get known. An alternative to signing with a company is just to create your own and see where you can get from there. Ah, but that doesn't always work out. And besides, who said you ever had to sign? You could live your entire life independently, though I imagine that would get rather frustrating at some time.

America is totally capitalist, it's not about "Quality, quality, quality!!", it's about "money, money, money! Always sunny in the rich man's world!" Of course those companies can't just have the money sitting around, it'll be eaten up by the government in taxes for I don't even know what. I'll never understand how the world works, I'm just focused on me doing me.

This reminds me of one more thing I forgot to hit; DRM protection. Digital content is much more popular than physical content because of how easy it is to obtain, and that means it's also much more flexible to illegally sharing. So the easiest way for them to moderate that was to just heavily limit rights on those by coding in restrictions. Buy a song or movie from iTunes and you can't transfer the damn thing without your iTunes account, and still that can only be done with FIVE computers.

If we were to put all people on the same level regardless of how cheap the penny-pinching company is for a minute then we could weigh theft and piracy properly. The way I see it, theft's outcomes vary; it can go completely unnoticed, it can end in a tussle, start with a tussle, or the whole situation could be a total massacre. Piracy always ends in heavy loss and there's no way around it. After all, it's faster to shoot out files of mp3's than to loot an entire warehouse of CDs.
  #10  
Old January 16, 2014, 07:29:12 PM
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^ I pretty much agree with everything. I just can't agree that piracy is a bigger deal to the community than theft.. It also doesn't help that this thread title is so vague, but whatevs. My mindset is the community, not big corporations. True, theft in general is just bad, but physical theft can occur to anyone at any given time, not just big corporations. Naturally, I can't deny that indie artists can also have their content "stolen", but it's completely better to be pirated than be stolen from in person. You don't run the risk of losing your life.

This thread title is pretty vague since theft =/= piracy. Not in my eyes, anyways. Besides, I like the idea of Robin Hood and saying that "taking from the rich won't hurt them much." :3
  #11  
Old January 16, 2014, 07:47:35 PM
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A little bit vague? Well I think I still remember the VRIM conversation I was having with Quaddy before the thread was made. Somehow the conversation lead to hardware vs. software and how which would have the worst impact. Tic-Tac suggested it should be a thread and so it was done. Theft doesn't refer to stick-em-ups, it's more along the lines of robbing a warehouse at midnight without the chance of civilians being harmed. But you added a good point by thinking that, because there are plenty different kinds of theft.

One time I used to be naďve and I thought piracy wouldn't affect anyone because they made so much money. And now I'm a 90% reformed pirate because I realized I wouldn't want to be doing that to someone if they were to the same to me. I try to avoid hypocrisy because I already hate every disgusting adult who does that. I've stolen things from a store about 3 times, and no one even noticed (that's actually more sad than amazing.) I felt bad after doing it but it didn't even come close to the amount of content downloaded.
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Old January 16, 2014, 07:59:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
A little bit vague? Well I think I still remember the VRIM conversation I was having with Quaddy before the thread was made. Somehow the conversation lead to hardware vs. software and how which would have the worst impact. Tic-Tac suggested it should be a thread and so it was done. Theft doesn't refer to stick-em-ups, it's more along the lines of robbing a warehouse at midnight without the chance of civilians being harmed. But you added a good point by thinking that, because there are plenty different kinds of theft.

One time I used to be naďve and I thought piracy wouldn't affect anyone because they made so much money. And now I'm a 90% reformed pirate because I realized I wouldn't want to be doing that to someone if they were to the same to me. I try to avoid hypocrisy because I already hate every disgusting adult who does that. I've stolen things from a store about 3 times, and no one even noticed (that's actually more sad than amazing.) I felt bad after doing it but it didn't even come close to the amount of content downloaded.
Well, yeah. Exactly. I don't see why piracy and theft are being compared when they're the same thing, except mostly towards a different victim. There also used to be stuff like embezzlement and others that I forget. All still theft.

I don't see why it's wrong when companies like them are total... *bad word* to the general public. Just look how strict youtube has gotten by following policy. On paper, bureaucratic companies don't look bad. Greed just gets in the way every time and that's why I feel how I feel. City councilmen are the same way, which are damn things I'll have to deal with once I get into Law Enforcement...
  #13  
Old January 17, 2014, 12:17:46 PM
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While not directly related to the question of whether piracy or theft is more serious, I may as well state my opinions.

Piracy is something I feel quite strong about, but at the same time it feels weird to support certain large companies. I prefer obtaining my movies, music, and video games as legally as possible, physical if possible, and in the easiest format to manipulate. However, I start running into troubles once I want to start managing my movie collection, which runs well over 100 DVDs. You see, DVDs contain a type of encryption known as Content Scramble System (CSS), which is illegal to break per the DMCA. It's extremely weak due to the ease of obtaining the master encryption key (break one DVD = break all DVDs).

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with breaking DVD encryption simply to copy my legally-owned movies to my own media center. I'm not planning to get rid of the original discs, nor am I planning to give away or sell either the discs or the rips. It seems, though, that the movie studios are targeting the people who create ripping software simply because it breaks their terrible encryption and "encourages" piracy. I think that's bull because someone else has already broken the encryption and distributed the illegal copies; the vast majority of people actually buying the ripping software intend to do so only to copy Avatar to their iPod. With music CDs, what are the vast majority of people doing with their ripped CDs? Putting them digitally on their own devices, not posting them online.

I'm not going to get into my opinions on pirated video games (to keep it short, I hate when people do it for anything more than testing a game for a few minutes to see if they'd like it) or record labels quite yet. I'll save those for another post.
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Old January 17, 2014, 04:06:43 PM
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There's different levels of both sides. I think to most people, pirating all of Adobe CS5 is a wee bit more severe than stealing a stick of bubble gum, while stealing a television out of someone's living room is a little more severe than downloading an obscure DS game that most people have never heard of. That being said, I've had multiple friends to me about downloading all of CS5 as if it was some kind of achievement. In fact, most people in my age group think there's nothing wrong with it, well justified ("I can't afford it!" "Adobe has enough money anyway!"), and is a rite of passage or something.

I don't care too much when people emulate GBA and PS2 games that have been out of production for a decade (Amazon gives no profits to the publishers, last I checked), or when they keep ROMs of games they already own (and even that's debatable), but when a company puts time and effort - a lot of time and effort - into making a piece of software and then people just go and pirate it for free . . . we have a problem.
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Old January 18, 2014, 08:09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon View Post
While not directly related to the question of whether piracy or theft is more serious, I may as well state my opinions.

Piracy is something I feel quite strong about, but at the same time it feels weird to support certain large companies. I prefer obtaining my movies, music, and video games as legally as possible, physical if possible, and in the easiest format to manipulate. However, I start running into troubles once I want to start managing my movie collection, which runs well over 100 DVDs. You see, DVDs contain a type of encryption known as Content Scramble System (CSS), which is illegal to break per the DMCA. It's extremely weak due to the ease of obtaining the master encryption key (break one DVD = break all DVDs).

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with breaking DVD encryption simply to copy my legally-owned movies to my own media center. I'm not planning to get rid of the original discs, nor am I planning to give away or sell either the discs or the rips. It seems, though, that the movie studios are targeting the people who create ripping software simply because it breaks their terrible encryption and "encourages" piracy. I think that's bull because someone else has already broken the encryption and distributed the illegal copies; the vast majority of people actually buying the ripping software intend to do so only to copy Avatar to their iPod. With music CDs, what are the vast majority of people doing with their ripped CDs? Putting them digitally on their own devices, not posting them online.

I'm not going to get into my opinions on pirated video games (to keep it short, I hate when people do it for anything more than testing a game for a few minutes to see if they'd like it) or record labels quite yet. I'll save those for another post.
It's a good thing I'm your favorite little pirate, Tic-Tac~

I had that problem in early 2013 when I tried moving my digital copy of Wreck-It Ralph and Scott Pilgrim to my laptop when I was going on vacation. I had nowhere to store the disc so I thought a USB transfer would be way easier, and I have cool portable TB hard drive so no big deal. That's when I learned about encryption and how annoying it can be. It does seem like they're shooting themselves in the foot, the more they try to stop piracy the more they encourage it. Besides, I'm a selfish American. I'm not trying to slip everyone a copy of Wreck-It, I'm trying to make things easier on myself.

When it comes to video games I hate digital copies, especially on non-portable consoles. I don't pirate as much as I am a passive thief. If there's something I want and have tried and know I want in the future then I'll find someone dumb who has it, ask to borrow it, and then keep it until it's off their minds. Because if they don't care enough about it then they don't deserve to have it, hahaha! My white area for downloading is mainly when someone like my idiot nephew does borrow a game from me and/or steals it from me and then LOSES it. 3 of my favorite GBA games were lost because of that and at the time I couldn't find them anywhere else. Ooh, but I hope we do one day see that other post of yours, your rants are philosophical~

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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
There's different levels of both sides. I think to most people, pirating all of Adobe CS5 is a wee bit more severe than stealing a stick of bubble gum, while stealing a television out of someone's living room is a little more severe than downloading an obscure DS game that most people have never heard of. That being said, I've had multiple friends to me about downloading all of CS5 as if it was some kind of achievement. In fact, most people in my age group think there's nothing wrong with it, well justified ("I can't afford it!" "Adobe has enough money anyway!"), and is a rite of passage or something.

I don't care too much when people emulate GBA and PS2 games that have been out of production for a decade (Amazon gives no profits to the publishers, last I checked), or when they keep ROMs of games they already own (and even that's debatable), but when a company puts time and effort - a lot of time and effort - into making a piece of software and then people just go and pirate it for free . . . we have a problem.
I dunno, stealing a TV sounds so difficult, I'd put it as much worse than downloading Suikoden Tierkreis.

I understand the rite of passage thing, there was a looong period in which no one would talk to me and so I would be all "I can play Elevator Action on the computer, guys!" and it worked sometimes. I used to put the emulation of things like super old Nintendo games and Genesis games on the list of "things that are okay because it won't hurt anyone" but then Nintendo came up with the virtual console. After that I just didn't really know anymore. And there still exist websites that me and my friends go to in school to do things like play Battletoads against each other. The only things I'm open about emulating now are EarthBound Zero and Mother 3 because... well it's obvious. Find me a real working English cart of either game and I WILL give you $100
  #16  
Old January 24, 2014, 07:52:39 PM
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I think this topic should be "Is piracy a problem?". Piracy is theft... I still don't understand what's to compare of the two. If it isn't under theft now, it will be because separating it is just a pain.

Also, can anyone explain how this a problem towards society?
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Old January 25, 2014, 07:01:00 AM
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Also, can anyone explain how this a problem towards society?
Monetary loss for the creators? Think of it like stealing out of a warehouse.
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Old January 26, 2014, 08:44:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
Monetary loss for the creators? Think of it like stealing out of a warehouse.
I suppose that could pose a major threat for new artists. Most start off on the internet nowadays, anyways. I also meant society as a whole, not just victims.

I dunno. I guess the best way around this is to figure out why it exists. Piracy isn't like physical theft. Most physical thefts are spontaneous, impulsive behavior by amateurs. Piracy was created for one purpose and it still lives up to it. Attempts to get rid of piracy is to take down major websites that support it. We've seen what kind of reaction society gave to that.

Anyways, does this (piracy) exist because original creators give too high of a price for their merchandise, or just because it does and people just want to make free stuff for other people? Marketing is changing, btw. It makes me wonder if some artists (big time artists) will make some of their music free, in order to regain trust from the general consumer to buy future products.
  #19  
Old January 26, 2014, 11:05:28 AM
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Problem towards society? It's not like an atom bomb that effects everyone in the surrounding area. In some instances it hurts a company or person so much that they shut down, so I guess society would lose that person's creative contribution.

Piracy has many motivation and the intention varies by the person doing the act. A lot of the time it's because, like you said, stuff is getting expensive. Some people make copies, others distribute copies to make their own profit, others are in an area where that item is not sold and usually will never be.

Some "big time artists" have free full samplings on their websites and stuff, but I don't think they'll ever release things for free. I mean, they release their most popular songs on compilation albums like every 7 years, don't they?
  #20  
Old January 26, 2014, 11:41:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
Problem towards society? It's not like an atom bomb that effects everyone in the surrounding area. In some instances it hurts a company or person so much that they shut down, so I guess society would lose that person's creative contribution.

Piracy has many motivation and the intention varies by the person doing the act. A lot of the time it's because, like you said, stuff is getting expensive. Some people make copies, others distribute copies to make their own profit, others are in an area where that item is not sold and usually will never be.

Some "big time artists" have free full samplings on their websites and stuff, but I don't think they'll ever release things for free. I mean, they release their most popular songs on compilation albums like every 7 years, don't they?
Lol, I wasn't thinking that extreme. I was gearing more towards a comparison of crimes, like the Piracy vs. Physical Theft. Physical Theft being the more dangerous to society as a whole due to the potential of it escalating (as most do) from Theft, to Robbery or Aggravated Robbery. The main reason* why there are Theft Prevention Programs and such. Whereas, Piracy affects those who distribute media software. Both are Theft, yes, however, the way they affect their victims and society is completely different. If you commit Theft anytime in your life, everyone and their extended family will probably look down on you. Piracy... Everyone pretty much participates in it.

Bleh, free sampling. That's garbage to me. If it were me and I were wanting to take care of my fans or possible fans, I would provide maybe a song or 2, free, from upcoming albums. Or just something along those lines. In marketing, I presume you'd want to keep your audience trust and interest. What better way than saying "look, I give free stuff!"? Car dealers pull crap like that all the time.

Last edited by Sub-zero; January 26, 2014 at 11:45:11 AM.
  #21  
Old January 26, 2014, 11:52:49 AM
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Piracy is like a guilty pleasure for all people. How many times have you heard "Who buys music anymore? Ha!"? Piracy can't lead to someone's death so it isn't treated as a serious problem until someone from the MPAA realizes they're down a couple hundred bucks from their few billion. It's very much so an illegal activity, but treated like such a joke.

Songs from upcoming albums? Oh, those are called singles, and they STILL cost money Album filler doesn't get released until the album comes out because they don't think it's good enough to represent the artist. The closest you have is radio advertisement.
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Old January 26, 2014, 12:07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
Piracy is like a guilty pleasure for all people. How many times have you heard "Who buys music anymore? Ha!"? Piracy can't lead to someone's death so it isn't treated as a serious problem until someone from the MPAA realizes they're down a couple hundred bucks from their few billion. It's very much so an illegal activity, but treated like such a joke.

Songs from upcoming albums? Oh, those are called singles, and they STILL cost money Album filler doesn't get released until the album comes out because they don't think it's good enough to represent the artist. The closest you have is radio advertisement.
Lol, yeah I don't buy much of my music anymore. Then again, I hardly even tune in to any new songs created by artists. So it's sort of difficult for me to be pro demolishing piracy without being even remotely biased. I totally understand the copyright reasoning and that totally passes, but I'm also human and I can't accept the terms music industries have made and how expensive it is to obtain music. Yes, I love high quality and I will pay for that, but I feel like I'm not buying it because I want to enjoy the quality of music or supporting my favorite artist, but because I HAVE to.

I don't know exactly how the industry works, who pays for hosting Grammy Awards or whatever, but I don't like. Personally, I don't give a poop about awards. I just want good quality music at a reasonable price. Maybe I came off wrong... Like a promoting marketing strategy, is what I aimed for. Or it doesn't even have to be to promote. It could be, I dunno, that cause I'm an awesome artist I'll let my fans have some free, high quality songs from the past. Oh wait, my agency won't let me...
  #23  
Old January 26, 2014, 02:06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
How many times have you heard "Who buys music anymore? Ha!"?
On that note, I'm one of the few people I know IRL or otherwise who has any of their Adobe products, etc. legally and I feel like the attitude of people has shifted from "oh, yeah, uh, I may have, uh, not paid for that" to "you mean you actually spend money on computer products? Grow some testicles!"

Idk if that adds to this discussion or not.
  #24  
Old January 26, 2014, 03:37:34 PM
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Lol, yeah I don't buy much of my music anymore. Then again, I hardly even tune in to any new songs created by artists. So it's sort of difficult for me to be pro demolishing piracy without being even remotely biased. I totally understand the copyright reasoning and that totally passes, but I'm also human and I can't accept the terms music industries have made and how expensive it is to obtain music. Yes, I love high quality and I will pay for that, but I feel like I'm not buying it because I want to enjoy the quality of music or supporting my favorite artist, but because I HAVE to.

I don't know exactly how the industry works, who pays for hosting Grammy Awards or whatever, but I don't like. Personally, I don't give a poop about awards. I just want good quality music at a reasonable price. Maybe I came off wrong... Like a promoting marketing strategy, is what I aimed for. Or it doesn't even have to be to promote. It could be, I dunno, that cause I'm an awesome artist I'll let my fans have some free, high quality songs from the past. Oh wait, my agency won't let me...
I buy music when it's for a band that I love very much, such as The Beatles (I WILL have the ultimate vinyl set collector's edition!) or Jimi Hendrix. In just about all other cases I just resort to YouTube, Pandora, or other people who I know already have music. I don't think anyone else deserves my money. There are also video game soundtracks, the lot of which aren't for sale and the rest I'd have to import (A large cause for piracy.)

The problem with releasing free things, as I've noticed in many situations, is that just because something is free doesn't mean it will be torn apart by fans like mice to cheese. In a lot of cases "free" means "it's just not worth it." (Also why album filler is never released outside that.) If the artist is indie then they would eventually release free songs. But if they sign and get popular then that company is gonna wanna lick up every cent they can get off those songs.

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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
On that note, I'm one of the few people I know IRL or otherwise who has any of their Adobe products, etc. legally and I feel like the attitude of people has shifted from "oh, yeah, uh, I may have, uh, not paid for that" to "you mean you actually spend money on computer products? Grow some testicles!"

Idk if that adds to this discussion or not.
I remember the old "Photoshop is soooo expensive, so I'll use Paint!" discussions we had in elementary and middle school... And cost of big name programs still effects me. It's one of two reasons I can't get FL Studio right now. It costs so much and I have no idea how to use it that if I bought it, it would be a huge waste of my money.
  #25  
Old February 1, 2014, 02:21:24 PM
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Old February 1, 2014, 09:21:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
That guy has potential as a rapper but the rhythm is a little odd and THOSE LYRICS XD He's not a REAL rapper, is he?

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  #27  
Old February 1, 2014, 09:27:24 PM
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*moves posts to a more appropriate thread*

I saw that video some years back. While it is pretty funny, the anti-piracy message in it still holds.
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Old February 1, 2014, 09:34:24 PM
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Well I guess now if I can analyze more for its anti-piracy message more than its hilarity, The part where the development team is the most important. Kinda outdated in terms of size, so the effect it has on video game companies has increased exponentially. Why, if I was one of those programmers and I found out about kids making endless copies of my game I'd PERSONALLY step in.
This looks so old it reminds me of those "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" commercials at the beginning of movies.
  #29  
Old February 1, 2014, 09:47:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
This looks so old it reminds me of those "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" commercials at the beginning of movies.
Speaking of which, that PSA is heavily flawed too. While the actual phrase in the ad is "You wouldn't steal a car" (your quotation is from the parody), I am sure a lot of people would steal cars if it was as easy as downloading a movie. The reason a lot of people don't steal cars is because there is an extremely high chance of getting caught, mostly because cars are expensive, very large, difficult to hide, and covered in tracking numbers (license plate, specific make/model/year, VIN, number of dents on the sides or cracks on the windshield, and so on). Movie files can be hidden quite easily on a computer hard drive, and obtaining them doesn't have to be obvious. It's also possible to delete the movies if there's ever a chance of getting caught, just like people who go joyriding and ditch the car afterwards.

Last edited by Cat333Pokémon; February 1, 2014 at 09:49:08 PM.
  #30  
Old February 1, 2014, 09:57:00 PM
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Eh, I always remembered the parody more for being more stupid than the original. I mean, who wouldn't download a car?
You wouldn't steal this and this and that, so don't pirate movies because it's also stealing. But that's the whole thing behind piracy; people do it because it's EASY. A man with the knowledge of the web and a fast internet speed could download the entire Disney collection of movies and store them on an external hard drive faster than most people could come up with plans for stealing cars. (But downloading cars? That I would try.) And like you said, when stealing a car there is a lot of physical evidence left behind. Handbag and television are also in there. It would take an absentminded lady to leave her purse unguarded, and stealing a TV is bound to cause a lot of noise. Downloading movies is just a different tier of theft.
  #31  
Old February 12, 2014, 06:43:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TurtwigX View Post
I buy music when it's for a band that I love very much, such as The Beatles (I WILL have the ultimate vinyl set collector's edition!) or Jimi Hendrix. In just about all other cases I just resort to YouTube, Pandora, or other people who I know already have music. I don't think anyone else deserves my money. There are also video game soundtracks, the lot of which aren't for sale and the rest I'd have to import (A large cause for piracy.)

The problem with releasing free things, as I've noticed in many situations, is that just because something is free doesn't mean it will be torn apart by fans like mice to cheese. In a lot of cases "free" means "it's just not worth it." (Also why album filler is never released outside that.) If the artist is indie then they would eventually release free songs. But if they sign and get popular then that company is gonna wanna lick up every cent they can get off those songs.
Kinda lost my train of thought since I've been gone, lol. No no, I agree. I make my strives to help out the artists I like, as well. Just not into everything else that surrounds those artists.

Eh, I'm not one to say that free things won't work or that that idea is bad because I have yet to see it put to use.
  #32  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:17:27 AM
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Default Directly talking about software piracy.

Right, so I want reopen this conversation and attack the issue directly without comparing it to something else.

I also hope the staff don't mind me using this as the content of my post here, since I think a video makes more of a statement than a wall of text in this case. (I'll post a transcript anyway later.)
  #33  
Old March 5, 2014, 03:20:53 PM
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Well, it looks like you're going against piracy straight up. Going on your thing of moral ethics;

Not everyone is a goody two-shoes, in fact none of us are truly good. Just because it's the right thing to do doesn't mean it's always going to be the popular opinion, and sometimes the illegal thing is the most popular just because of the illegality (I once thought it made me feel edgy and cool, but I'm twice as edgy and cool now and I don't need to pirate.) However, people who pirate just to steal from a company are truly evil, as most pirates have their own reasons for their acts. Now your question at the end, would pirating something be the right thing? It is never the right thing, the right thing involves equivalent exchange. If you take something that benefits you, what do you give in return as appreciation for it? This also leads into a more personal side, pirating based on position. Now I'm a music man and I use Finale 2012 to write all my sheet music. It is such a great program but it was really expensive, and rightfully so with all the things it lets you do. But someone who likes science wouldn't find this as useful as me, but would still like to use it themselves (for some unknown reason) so why would they pay the price to play around? This is the reason I have not yet purchased FL Studio, I can't buy the program and have it sit on my desktop for years knowing that I'll never touch it because I'm afraid of it. I, not having any knowledge of Photoshop and all that stuff, find it pointless to cough up that ridiculous amount of money. I'd pirate it just to see how it works, and then possibly pay for it later. I'm not promoting or justifying piracy, just describing what would possibly make a person stoop that low.

But I think it's really cute that you're such a good person, please keep it up.
  #34  
Old March 5, 2014, 04:19:10 PM
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I could go for that argument about "being defiant against those in money" as that has always been a reason for any kind of theft since humans existed. It is morally wrong, though. No argument there.

I'm glad you (Dragonite) brought up the point of it being a sign of "disrespect" towards society, namely people who actually purchase the software. I believe that to be a very big part of the Piracy problem, as I can see anyone being ridiculed for "spending your money when you can get this free from a torrent site."

Good video. You talk kinda fast, too. D:
  #35  
Old March 5, 2014, 04:19:16 PM
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I think I'll bring up DRM again, which I touched on before with ripping DVDs. Digital Rights Management (DRM) is intended to be a way to control the consumer after purchasing a product.

I'm going to use an example that I know will get me a lot of flak: Steam. (This same system also applies to uPlay and Origin.) For the uninformed bunch, Steam is a digital distribution service for computer games. You download and install the software, create an account, link up a credit card, and purchase a game through the service. You can also purchase Steam keys elsewhere, which can be activated within the software. After being tied to your account, the game downloads in pieces to your hard drive. Once downloaded, you can launch the game. It also periodically installs updates for games you have downloaded to fix issues. While this service is incredibly convenient (to the point that some PC gamers are annoyed by the lack of Steam support in external games like Minecraft and demand support for it in indie bundles), it has a few significant problems.

First, the games are tied completely to your account and many require the Steam software to run. However you obtained them before the tying is irrelevant, even if you own a physical disc, bought it through another site, or received it as a gift. Many of the high-budget games absolutely cannot run without Steam running, and those that can often require Steam to perform the download (meaning you cannot simply copy the folder containing the game files). Heck, this can actually be really problematic on older computers, which may struggle with running Steam or may not even be able to run it at all, even if the games would work fine with the computer. At least they allow you to install the software and games on as many computers as you please, as long as you log in. While they do offer an option to backup to and restore from discs, those discs are still fully tied to your account. You still must use Steam to download the games for the first time:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer.
Second, and this is related to the first, the service is completely reliant on the Internet. If you are one of the many people lacking a high-speed connection (or any at-home Internet at all) or are one of the also-large group with bandwidth metering, using Steam for anything more than a game that occupies a hundred megs may simply prove impossible or very inconvenient. Having a physical disc that doesn't require an Internet connection (and therefore isn't a Steamworks game) avoids this problem entirely.

Third, offline support is very flaky. Depending on the game, your account status, how much you've played the game, a setting that you may have changed, and the alignment of the planets in the sky, you may or may not be able to play your games if you lack an Internet connection. Even if you use the aforementioned method of backing your games up, you still have to activate them on a new computer. No Internet, no game:
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.
Fourth, getting banned or otherwise having your account locked can be disastrous to your legally purchased games:
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms) in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.
In some cases you lose access to only social features, sometimes you cannot access verified game servers, sometimes you lose the ability to activate or purchase new games, and in the worst cases you lose the ability to log in whatsoever (therefore disabling access to your games). Locking can happen by cheating in online games or misusing their official forums, among other things, while banning can occur by participating in illegal activities like fraud. Even after your retribution and rehabilitation, it is apparently quite difficult to reverse these statuses. Interestingly enough, Steam actually scans your computer for cheating software:
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
Steam and the Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Software or modifications of Software (“Cheats”).
For many games Steam is simply the only option for playing them on your computer. You have to follow their rules to buy, download, and play games. If you need something else to read, take a look at the Steam Subscriber Agreement:
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

It includes wacky stipulations like these:
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
Unless you are a Licensed Cybercafe Operator (as defined below), this Agreement does not allow you to use the Software at a Cybercafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site. A "Cybercafe" is a physical establishment in which computer stations are made available for use by customers. A "Licensed Cybercafe Operator" is a Cybercafe that has agreed to the Subscription Terms for Licensed Cybercafe Operators posted at http://store.steampowered.com/cybercafe_agreement/.
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted.
And last but not least:
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Originally Posted by Steam Subscriber Agreement
You may cancel your Account at any time. You may cease use of a Subscription at any time or, if you choose, you may request that we terminate your access to a Subscription. However, Subscriptions are not transferable, and even if your access to a Subscription for a particular game or application is terminated, the original activation key will not be able to be registered to any other account, even if the Subscription was obtained in a retail store. Access to Subscriptions purchased as a part of a pack or bundle cannot be terminated individually, termination of access to one game within the bundle will result in termination of access to all games purchased in the pack. Your cancellation of an Account, or your cessation of use of any Subscription or request that access to a Subscription be terminated, will not entitle you to any refund, including of any Subscription fees. Valve reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred prior to the cancellation of your Account or termination of your access to a particular Subscription. In addition, you are responsible for any charges incurred to third-party vendors or content providers before your cancellation.
This is a complete lie. You cannot cancel your account if you have retail games tied to it.



I cannot personally trust such a service to host my gaming library, especially when it could be taken away at a whim or otherwise dangled in front of my face until I accept another twelve agreements and two more gigs of updates. It almost feels like it's just encouraging pirates to download the games to give themselves complete freedom over how they manage their library and install it on whatever computers they please without an Internet connection, without the Steam client, and without pesky license agreements. I actually have avoided making quite a few purchases because Steam was the only option to buy a game. I usually lean towards console versions of games or DRM-free ones through GOG (Good Old Games) or Humble Bundle (check for the DRM-free icon!). Heck, I "am a licensed subscriber" to 161 games on Steam, but nearly all of those are because of other service gave them to me, instead of the three or four games I actually bought through the thing some years back. Oh well, at least I can still--
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Hello!

We see you're logging in to Steam from a new browser or a new computer. Or maybe it's just been a while...

As an added account security measure, you’ll need to grant access to this browser by entering the special code we’ve just sent to your email address.


Steam has too many limitations. I want DRM-free games to be the norm again, and until then I'm not using Steam.
  #36  
Old March 5, 2014, 04:53:19 PM
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Well, it looks like you're going against piracy straight up. Going on your thing of moral ethics. . . would possibly make a person stoop that low.
I mean, I know all the "why"s, but they still never answer the central question of "why are you even trying to justify getting something free when it's not intended to be." Which I guess you answered by saying, essentially, simply that not everybody cares, though I'm going to try to not settle for that. This one's a bit of a loose analogy but "because I wanted to" is not an excuse for punching someone in the face.

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as I can see anyone being ridiculed for "spending your money when you can get this free from a torrent site.
High school. True story.
  #37  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:07:19 PM
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I mean, I know all the "why"s, but they still never answer the central question of "why are you even trying to justify getting something free when it's not intended to be." Which I guess you answered by saying, essentially, simply that not everybody cares, though I'm going to try to not settle for that. This one's a bit of a loose analogy but "because I wanted to" is not an excuse for punching someone in the face.
It's really nice that you're so noble in your causes, and it's true that "'cause" isn't a good reason for punching someone in the face. Something usually provokes them. Here's a list of reasons that I have found or other people have given me for piracy;

-Too expensive
-I'll buy it eventually
-It won't support the original developer/producer anymore
-This is only temporary
-It's just for a demo
-That company's rich anyway/I need this more than they need money
-I don't have a job
-Backup purposes
-Going against the government
-Situational overpricing (Normally dealing with rarity, Snatcher for the SEGA CD is $3,000 [plus $3.99 shipping on Amazon ;D])

I see it as the less someone cares about something the more they'll identify with one of those, and there are still more. Because if someone wants to punch someone in the face they had an idea and an urge and the will to do it. There's a reason behind everything.

One of the things I've pirated the most (yeah I'm putting this out there) is the Mother series. I've downloaded all 3 games, minus Mother 1 + 2 which I think I will never play. Now, how would I justify not supporting my favorite series? Because Nintendo themselves do not support it. Only one game was officially translated, and only saw a rerelease quite recently. I did get Earthbound on the VC the second I opened my Wii U, but before that I could only play it on an emulator. I wasn't really born or whatever, so I missed the initial release and couldn't come up with the then $10,000 to buy the game, and an additional $100 or so for the system, controllers, A/V, the whole shebang. The only real option was to download it, and I played it, beat it, had a grand old time. But Earthbound is just the 2nd game in the series, the first is Earthbound Zero. It's just as good as Earthbound but receives little recognition. That one is impossible to physically purchase, lest someone would be so kind to help me patch a physical Japanese cart (and again, buy me an NES, the controllers, the rest.) It was never released in America and at this point never will be because of NES hardware issues and because the SNES was about to come in. Mother 3 is a very popular case, and is often debated on. I have Tomato's patch, and on the main screen it clearly says "Please support the official release." I have promised to, when the time comes, buy the $%^& out of Mother 3 if it ever is released even if the dialogue is butchered to an E rated mess. Like one to play, one to show off to people, one to preserve in a glass case for all time. This series is my favorite and I will do anything I can to support it and Itoi and Nintendo for it, but I never would have even experienced it if it weren't for that first download.

Last edited by TurtwigX; March 5, 2014 at 09:38:52 PM. Reason: The word is backups. Yes.
  #38  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:30:29 PM
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-Too expensive
-I'll buy it eventually
-It won't support the original developer/producer anymore
-This is only temporary
-It's just for a demo
-That company's rich anyway/I need this more than they need money
-I don't have a job
Once again, is this justification or an excuse? This is going in circles . . .

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-Lost/stolen from me previously
[ - "backup purposes"]
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-Situational overpricing (Normally dealing with rarity, Snatcher for the SEGA CD is $3,000 [plus $3.99 shipping on Amazon ;D])
DMCA doesn't approve of that, either, except that's a massive can of worms on its own. Technically, the copyrights don't expire for something like 97 years, so even a short command line utility someone wrote in the '60s and never released the code to is still under copyright for quite a while, even if the creator and their organization are no longer in business. The one exception that I could find is that they don't mind if you dump the ROM image yourself . . . except nobody can ever prove or disprove that you were the one who that.

see also: ROM hacking. See Cat's reply & corrections for more details.

Last edited by Dragonite; March 5, 2014 at 09:45:15 PM.
  #39  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
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Once again, is this justification or an excuse? This is going in circles . . .
It's neither justification nor excuse. These are "reasons" people would turn to when asked why they did something. Going to your punching in the face thing, suppose I just randomly punch you in the face. Would you react differently if I gave you a reason than if I just said "cause your face is a face"? The only reason there's a debate on piracy is because people use reasons like those instead of saying "I pirate because I can." Then it'd just be flat out illegal and people wouldn't give that a second thought.

Backups, that's the word I forgot...
  #40  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:40:22 PM
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see also: ROM hacking. Every source I found said distributing ROM hacks is okay because Fair Use (even the VR rules appear to be okay with it) . . . but then I could just dump my Pokémon Black, change two words of some obscure NPC dialogue and distribute it to the world claiming it was a ROM hack. Don't get me wrong, I still play my Dark Risings and Liquid Crystals but this gets much weirder than the original issue so I prefer to keep it separate.
Nope, not quite. You're missing one key thing: you cannot distribute the entire ROM file, only the patch, which is a file that simply contains the differences between two different files (in this case, the original ROM and the hacked ROM).
  #41  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:45:28 PM
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Nope, not quite. You're missing one key thing: you cannot distribute the entire ROM file, only the patch, which is a file that simply contains the differences between two different files (in this case, the original ROM and the hacked ROM).
Whoa, that changes things a little . . . and it gets even weirder when I can pretty safely say I think I've only seen one source distribute the patch alone, among other things.

Last edited by Dragonite; March 5, 2014 at 09:48:51 PM.
  #42  
Old March 5, 2014, 09:50:04 PM
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Whoa, that changes things a little . . . and it gets even weirder when I can pretty safely say I think I've only seen one source distribute the patch alone, among other things.
This is why I don't necessarily like ROM hacks. I believe those in itself promote piracy more than anything. You can't expect a cluster of randomly selected people to know how to dump their own ROMs.

Of course, Tomato is perfection and only distributes the fan translation to Mother 3 on his website.
  #43  
Old March 5, 2014, 11:45:25 PM
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Whoa, that changes things a little . . . and it gets even weirder when I can pretty safely say I think I've only seen one source distribute the patch alone, among other things.
Ten years ago, back when I had interest in ROM hacks (notably, ones for Super Mario World), I lurked around forums, all of which had strict rules that only allowed distributing patches created with Lunar IPS (now obsolete), which guaranteed that no copyrighted code would be distributed.

Things are different nowadays. If you see people posting links to hacks on huge sites like YouTube or Reddit, there is minimal regulation (due to the sites' large sizes) with linking to ROM images, so folks may simply link to the hack as a ROM image instead of dealing with the hassle of explaining how to apply the patch whenever someone gets an obscure error message or has a different version of the ROM.

Almost assuredly, though, if you are viewing a forum with any decent size with moderators that allows discussion of ROM hacking, there is a going to be a stipulation that all hacks must be distributed as IPS patches. Take a look at VR's attachment manager and you'll notice .ips as a supported extension. A few of our earliest members were into ROM hacking.

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This is why I don't necessarily like ROM hacks. I believe those in itself promote piracy more than anything. You can't expect a cluster of randomly selected people to know how to dump their own ROMs.
As a fun fact, I actually own devices capable of dumping ROM images from GB, GBC, GBA, and DS games. How else do you think I extracted these? My primary use for the devices is to back up my save files, particularly the one from Pokémon Silver. (Surprisingly, the battery in that game has not died yet.)
 
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