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  #1  
Old April 27, 2013, 07:11:36 PM
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Default Gun Control For or Against it?

I have been thinking about this a lot lately and I have this to say.

Will it really make a difference? The only time I've ever used a gun was when I was 8 practicing skeet with a bebe gun in Georgia.

If we had less guns I doubt my day to day life would change would change so why does it matter, this what my dad argues. I tell him that it's still making a difference it's a first attempt to make change it won't matter if it fails it's still a sign of progression or failure. We are so insecure as Americans we flip out of the very idea of having less guns, I don't even know if people in NRA are doing it more out there own insecurity over protecting there family. We can't just do nothing being stubborn mules refusing any real progression. I do care about gun control because I think it's the write thing to do, but I still know whatever happens probably won't effect me anyways.

Last edited by Cyrus; April 27, 2013 at 09:23:56 PM. Reason: fixed thread title
  #2  
Old April 27, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
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I agree, any step towards less violence is a good step. Our family owns a few guns, I don't know why, but we do. I am against guns. When I ask people, even my own family, why they have guns, they answer it is to protect themselves... from people with guns...

Day-to-day people shouldn't need a gun. Guns are beneficial to hunters and sometimes farmers, and that is about it (with the exception of sports, but that isn't really important, IMO).

What I also hate is how just the scare that the government is going to take guns away makes people want to go get guns... Because of that there are even more guns in houses. This makes guns easier for anyone to get when they are stocked in so many houses...

Basically, I am again guns and rather then only be issued for military purposes.
  #3  
Old April 27, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
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The way I see it, guns are evil creations that can be turned into mass killing machines by the wrong people. I don't even like military use of them, but there's no way they'll be permanently eradicated.

I don't think there's any real need for gun control, just PEOPLE control. To quote something, I forget where, "Guns don't kill people, I kill people." If the government takes the time out to put strict rules against them (Against the second amendment) then there'll be A: New weapons for mass murder, not stopping crazy people, or B: A LOT more illegal gun selling.

Though you may say I'm a dreamer, I think people who commit these acts should be locked up and kept away. Those who are sane and have guns for defense and hunting use them for... defense. And hunting.
  #4  
Old April 27, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
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I don't agree that more strict gun control is the right way to go; while I would love less violence in the world, making it harder for people to legally buy a gun and ammunition isn't going to change that. Actually, I think it will make things worse; the people who are crazy and evil enough to go out and kill people with a gun aren't going to care about the laws that are out there now - the guy who shot all the kids in the school last December broke over 450 laws in doing so, and I doubt he gave a darn - so how exactly is one more law going to make a difference?
If you were to look at the statistics, Cities, States, Provinces and Countries where guns are more tightly controlled are more often than not the places where crime is highest. And even if we were to ban guns and destroy them all, the evil people will just smuggle them from another country, or just resort to using knives and machetes and homemade bombs, things like that.
People who own and carry them for defense use them for just that: defense. There's a saying I read in an article about the shooting up in the Clackamas Town Center Mall that said "The only thing that can stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun", and from what I've seen, that saying holds true.
  #5  
Old April 28, 2013, 04:59:17 PM
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I do think it does need some controlling, but I think the wrong approach is trying to be taken. Honestly, I think there's other things that should be controlled and regulated other than guns.

Edit: For example, we should probably be explaining how guns are good for sports and "last minute defending", rather than being the solution for fixing your bully problems/getting attention. >.> The media has a lot to do with this and is something that should be more looked into rather than trying to control gun sales themselves.

Last edited by Sub-zero; April 28, 2013 at 05:01:54 PM.
  #6  
Old April 28, 2013, 08:48:53 PM
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Gun control- making some or all guns illegal to buy or possess. Because criminals follow the law. After all, there aren't any pot smokers in the country, because it is illegal. There weren't any alcoholics back during prohibition in america because alcohol was illegal.
  #7  
Old April 29, 2013, 12:16:18 PM
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As Spiky already mentioned, making stricter gun control laws won't really affect those who decide to use guns for illegal means. Most people who commit crimes via gun violence most likely obtained those guns in an illegal manner, so having stricter gun control would actually harm the civilians more than help.

My brother brought up a good point about a similar discussion - banning alcohol and tobacco. He said (somewhere around the lines of) making these things illegal won't make people stop using them, it'll just make people obtain those things in an illegal fashion, thus causing crime to go up rather than down. Just look at the prohibition era - did people stop drinking alcohol? I'm sure some did, but it caused so many people to become bootleggers in the north and moonshiners in the south. It created speakeasies and was even the reason why organized crime gangs were started.

Now tell me - would banning guns mean nobody will use guns? No. People will still get guns, be it smuggling across borders, purchasing it from a black market dealer, or even going as far as to buy a 3D printer and materials to print their own gun.
Banning guns won't decrease crime rates - just the opposite will happen.

Last edited by Quadcentruo; April 29, 2013 at 12:17:24 PM.
  #8  
Old November 14, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
I do think it does need some controlling, but I think the wrong approach is trying to be taken. Honestly, I think there's other things that should be controlled and regulated other than guns.

Edit: For example, we should probably be explaining how guns are good for sports and "last minute defending", rather than being the solution for fixing your bully problems/getting attention. >.> The media has a lot to do with this and is something that should be more looked into rather than trying to control gun sales themselves.
Quoting myself since I've just gotten into law and stuffs, the main reason this debate is even in existence is because of the shootings, right? These shootings were mostly releated with semi-automatic RIFLES (which the public can't have in the streets unless you're in Texas) meaning the people who acquire these guns... Well, the guns were illegal to begin with. "Banning" guns in general will probably not help the change of violence.

Crime itself is a huge problem, not just guns. In fact, I would argue more that Burglaries and Robberies are more of a problem than the right to bear arms.

Last edited by Sub-zero; November 14, 2013 at 06:43:26 PM.
  #9  
Old November 14, 2013, 06:54:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
Quoting myself since I've just gotten into law and stuffs, the main reason this debate is even in existence is because of the shootings, right? These shootings were mostly releated with semi-automatic RIFLES (which the public can't have in the streets unless you're in Texas) meaning the people who acquire these guns... Well, the guns were illegal to begin with. "Banning" guns in general will probably not help the change of violence.

Crime itself is a huge problem, not just guns. In fact, I would argue more that Burglaries and Robberies are more of a problem than the right to bear arms.
You make it sound like guns are not a problem. Pretty much everywhere I've lived so far (central New Jersey, upstate New York), it's rare to not hear about someone or another shooting someone. Just because they had a grudge against that person. Or that person's family. Or their family's family. Or just because they happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. Guns are the problem. As much as we'd like to, we can't ban stupidity.

For God's sake, at least make it harder for people to shoot people instead of doing nothing.

Last edited by Dragonite; November 14, 2013 at 06:56:46 PM.
  #10  
Old November 14, 2013, 07:13:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
You make it sound like guns are not a problem. Pretty much everywhere I've lived so far (central New Jersey, upstate New York), it's rare to not hear about someone or another shooting someone. Just because they had a grudge against that person. Or that person's family. Or their family's family. Or just because they happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. Guns are the problem. As much as we'd like to, we can't ban stupidity.

For God's sake, at least make it harder for people to shoot people instead of doing nothing.
Honestly, I believe it's the persons will to act rather than just the gun. However, I will admit that when a person, with the intent to kill, sees a gun, the chances of killing increases drastically. Then again, you could say this about any weapon.

I wouldn't say they are the problem. What comes to it is the punishment for murder. As all should know, murder (in Texas) is a felony. Felonies make it harder to find a job, considering you get out of prison alive or with bail (which the price is high). With a weapon present, most of crimes will move up the ladder, meaning your punishment will be higher. Whether you decide to ignore this or not (hint, this is why murder spree murders kill themselves) is up to you. People just don't THINK before they act.

Guns are a problem when discussing Robberies, though (Aggravated Robberies).


Edit: I guess if you're bold enough to kill, you're pretty much bold enough to get yourself killed. Karma sucks. For example, if ALL murders were bumped to the Death Penalty, I'm pretty sure we'd see a sharp decrease of them due to fear of punishment. It's just an example, lol.

Last edited by Sub-zero; November 14, 2013 at 07:15:55 PM.
  #11  
Old November 14, 2013, 07:20:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
Honestly, I believe it's the persons will to act rather than just the gun. However, I will admit that when a person, with the intent to kill, sees a gun, the chances of killing increases drastically. Then again, you could say this about any weapon.

I wouldn't say they are the problem. What comes to it is the punishment for murder. As all should know, murder (in Texas) is a felony. Felonies make it harder to find a job, considering you get out of prison alive or with bail (which the price is high). With a weapon present, most of crimes will move up the ladder, meaning your punishment will be higher. Whether you decide to ignore this or not (hint, this is why murder spree murders kill themselves) is up to you. People just don't THINK before they act.

Guns are a problem when discussing Robberies, though (Aggravated Robberies).


Edit: I guess if you're bold enough to kill, you're pretty much bold enough to get yourself killed. Karma sucks. For example, if ALL murders were bumped to the Death Penalty, I'm pretty sure we'd see a sharp decrease of them due to fear of punishment. It's just an example, lol.
That's fair enough, but I don't see what that changes . . . what would you suggest as a solution to people killing people, then?

As an afternote, I also don't believe in using the death penalty as a rationale for killing people. I suppose that changes how my argument is interpreted a little.
  #12  
Old November 14, 2013, 07:27:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
That's fair enough, but I don't see what that changes . . . what would you suggest as a solution to people killing people, then?

As an afternote, I also don't believe in using the death penalty as a rationale for killing people. I suppose that changes how my argument is interpreted a little.
Well, there's no right answer. Because of that, our 2nd Amendment is being reconsidered in this new age. I see the regulation working... Sort of. Guns are everywhere. If people want to get there hands on one, they will, even if it's blackmarket and expensive as heck. It also doesn't help that our prisons are overcrowded, thus reducing inmates actual prison time, especially with crime rates being so freaking high. It's really an unsettling problem for everyone. Otherwise, my best answer would've been increasing prison sentences by getting offenders through court faster and increasing our prisons. At the same time, that sucks because building prisons consume tax dollars and we just don't have enough judges and courthouses. :/ I can't give you a good answer.

Lol, death penalty would indeed be too drastic, but hey, it'd work. xD I'm for the death penalty, btw. But, the less expensive one. You know... Not lethal injection. Hey, if you commit a serious crime, you get a serious punishment!
  #13  
Old November 14, 2013, 07:41:02 PM
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My thing about the second amendment is that it says this:

Quote:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
I'm not a law student atm and to be honest legal-ese stuff is a little boring to me, but I'm pretty sure that quote says "regulated militia" and not "every American." And with "militia" being defined as

Quote:
a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldiers
that seems to imply that there should be some sort of regulation over who gets them and what they do wit them. You said you've gotten into law recently, how do other people interpret this?

(By the way, I like how the people here are able to handle the subject of gun control like civilized people. Most Internet discussions on this I've looked at have people shouting at each other in formatted text after about three or four posts :3 )
  #14  
Old November 14, 2013, 07:53:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragonite View Post
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I'm not a law student atm and to be honest legal-ese stuff is a little boring to me, but I'm pretty sure that quote says "regulated militia" and not "every American." And with "militia" being defined as

Quote:
a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldierse sort of regulation over who gets them and what they do wit them. You said you've gotten into law recently, how do other people interpret this?

(By the way, I like how the people here are able to handle the subject of gun control like civilized people. Most Internet discussions on this I've looked at have people shouting at each other in formatted text after about three or four posts :3 )
Indeed militia does mean trained persons. I don't know if that's been upheld in the Supreme Court (I'm sure it has, just haven't done enough research) but also keep in mind that states also make their own laws and cities can create ordinances. For example, here in Texas, it's perfectly legal to have a semi-auto rifle around your neck if you're in the street. However, as we all know, there are certain places where ANY weapon is prohibited, concealed or not. And to have a concealed weapon, you need to have a permit. I guess the permit will explain why people can have weapons since by having a permit, you're half trained. xD

I'm not too deep into law yet, but I am going to school for law enforcement, so I has to know the law. In Texas, anyways.
  #15  
Old November 14, 2013, 08:34:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sub-zero View Post
Indeed militia does mean trained persons. I don't know if that's been upheld in the Supreme Court (I'm sure it has, just haven't done enough research) but also keep in mind that states also make their own laws and cities can create ordinances. For example, here in Texas, it's perfectly legal to have a semi-auto rifle around your neck if you're in the street. However, as we all know, there are certain places where ANY weapon is prohibited, concealed or not. And to have a concealed weapon, you need to have a permit. I guess the permit will explain why people can have weapons since by having a permit, you're half trained. xD

I'm not too deep into law yet, but I am going to school for law enforcement, so I has to know the law. In Texas, anyways.
Trained Militia's ?

We can barely control our own cops! It's gotten to the point where it feels like cops in movies are better cops because it seems like whenever a cop gets an opportunity to use a gun he'll go through with it without thinking and someone ends up getting either hurt or worse killed by of some stupid cop!

Last edited by Magmaster12; November 14, 2013 at 08:35:20 PM.
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Old November 14, 2013, 08:37:41 PM
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Trained Militia's ?

We can barely control our own cops! It's gotten to the point where it feels like cops in movies are better cops because it seems like whenever a cop gets an opportunity to use a gun he'll go through with it without thinking and someone ends up getting either hurt or worse killed by of some stupid cop!
That is up to the department who trained the officer and the officer's experience. Also, note that the media LOVES blowing up police officers when mistakes are made. Sometimes not mistakes because there are officers who abuse their* power. Oh, and the police chief of that county will be fired.

Speaking of one does not speak for all. Don't be ignorant.


Edit: Lol, movies are the worst. Crime shows sometimes put fluids in ziplock bags. Seriously, what?

Last edited by Sub-zero; November 14, 2013 at 08:49:14 PM.
  #17  
Old November 14, 2013, 08:58:17 PM
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That is up to the department who trained the officer and the officer's experience. Also, note that the media LOVES blowing up police officers when mistakes are made. Sometimes not mistakes because there are officers who abuse their* power. Oh, and the police chief of that county will be fired.

Speaking of one does not speak for all. Don't be ignorant.


Edit: Lol, movies are the worst. Crime shows sometimes put fluids in ziplock bags. Seriously, what?
SO it shouldn't happen at all.

As for media stuff, that's not fully true because earlier this year when there where gun shots at the capital all they went on about was how the woman was crazy and not once brought up if anyone in the FBI saw her as a real threat that she needed to be killed in front of her baby!
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Old November 14, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
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SO it shouldn't happen at all.

As for media stuff, that's not fully true because earlier this year when there where gun shots at the capital all they went on about was how the woman was crazy and not once brought up if anyone in the FBI saw her as a real threat that she needed to be killed in front of her baby!
What shouldn't happen at all? Police shootings? They're not as common as you'd think, but yeah, they happen. I'm not denying that. I will, however, admit that police officers should undergo heavy training sessions, particularly mentally. Rookies (1-2 years) will often be involved with a shooting that wasn't necessary.

I don't know that case. O.o Link? If the FBI was on her, then her heat was pretty rad.


Edit: Going kinda off topic. Police shootings =/= 2nd Amendment. You're involving a totally different matter into this topic.

Last edited by Sub-zero; November 14, 2013 at 09:04:20 PM.
  #19  
Old November 14, 2013, 09:22:23 PM
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Also, note that the media LOVES blowing up police officers when mistakes are made.
This, and this exactly. How often to civilian shootings happen, and how long do they stay news? Nearly daily. How often to controversial police shootings happen, and how long do they stay in the news? Very rarely, but good Lord does that kind of thing stick in the newspapers.

Of all the people that handle guns on a regular basis, I'm pretty sure law enforcement are the best qualified and the least of our worries.

Last edited by Dragonite; November 14, 2013 at 09:22:33 PM.
  #20  
Old November 14, 2013, 09:27:17 PM
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This, and this exactly. How often to civilian shootings happen, and how long do they stay news? Nearly daily. How often to controversial police shootings happen, and how long do they stay in the news? Very rarely, but good Lord does that kind of thing stick in the newspapers.

Of all the people that handle guns on a regular basis, I'm pretty sure law enforcement are the best qualified and the least of our worries.
Yup, daily. Ironically, because the news really focuses on sexual assaults, murders, and several controversies, most people who rely on the news for "safety" become paranoid. Indeed we live a pretty bad world, but death isn't always in every single corner.

Agreed on law enforcement, though training sessions should be increased. Just for seasoning.
  #21  
Old November 19, 2013, 01:32:47 PM
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I didn't want to just edit so that this would be noticed, so I'll just break the rules real quick and double post. I'm so bad. Anywho, Dragonite! After having discussion in class a bit, I've come to tell you that my previous answer to helping prevent crime is actually a relatively useless way to help prevent it. Building more prisons/jails would only lead to loss of tax dollars and those imprisonment buildings to become full, thus doing nothing for the community.

Instead, a better note would be to encourage community cooperation. Get to know your neighbor and that way, in turn, criminals can be caught more effectively or you'll probably just scare them out of your community. There's is no better fighting to crime than to get the community to assist peace officers, even by keeping your eyes out. Keep note of cars you don't recognize and write down the license plate number along with the type of vehicle. The more alert the community, the less the crime.

ALSO, the professor noted that here in a Texas, there is a guy running for governor who wants to allow citizens to freely carry a weapon around town. Currently, you can in a Texas roads, but not elsewhere. As a previous Police Chief, our professor said this will surely become a problem for officer safety. If something like that does pass, I won't be surprised if more shootings occur. So, in a way, I take back that guns aren't a problem because they certainly can be, especially is EVERYONE can carry one PUBLICLY.
  #22  
Old November 19, 2013, 02:17:56 PM
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Interesting you mention that. It brings to mind something that happened in my home state a few months ago.

http://newarknj.patch.com/groups/pol...ng-gun-buyback

I forget what their final numbers were, but it's one of their most successful attempts to make the place more safe, if not the most successful.
  #23  
Old November 20, 2013, 08:41:35 PM
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That is, indeed, not a bad idea. Add the fact that people just need money, that is definitely a pretty good alternative that is by choice rather than law enforcing the removal of weapons. Good deal! I wouldn't be surprised it crime slowly declines (with aggravated and murder by a firearm obviously going down), but crime itself will never go away. It's a shame that those who don't want to be victims must literally take a number of precautions since crime is so overwhelming in this day and age.
 
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