Victory Road  

Go Back   Victory Road > Pokémon > Other Pokémon Gaming > Pokémon Black and White

Notices

 
 
  #1  
Old May 9, 2011, 03:27:45 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default Pokemon Black and White OU Tiers Released

Hello all of you competitive battlers out there! The usage stats straight from Smogon are finally in, and the first list of OU Pokemon has been decided! The list is made up of 53 Pokemon. The order that the Pokemon are listed is based on their usage.

Code:
APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
 Total Battles: 299644
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
 | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent |
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
 | 1    | Ferrothorn      | 127997 | 21.3582 |
 | 2    | Tyranitar       | 124735 | 20.8139 |
 | 3    | Scizor          | 112589 | 18.7871 |
 | 4    | Garchomp        | 109670 | 18.3000 |
 | 5    | Gliscor         |  89599 | 14.9509 |
 | 6    | Latios          |  78471 | 13.0940 |
 | 7    | Excadrill       |  78095 | 13.0313 |
 | 8    | Reuniclus       |  76510 | 12.7668 |
 | 9    | Heatran         |  72800 | 12.1477 |
 | 10   | Rotom-W         |  69963 | 11.6744 |
 | 11   | Conkeldurr      |  64134 | 10.7017 |
 | 12   | Jirachi         |  62501 | 10.4292 |
 | 13   | Politoed        |  61688 | 10.2935 |
 | 14   | Dragonite       |  60079 | 10.0251 |
 | 15   | Thundurus       |  57828 |  9.6495 |
 | 16   | Gengar          |  57689 |  9.6263 |
 | 17   | Jellicent       |  54143 |  9.0346 |
 | 18   | Skarmory        |  53975 |  9.0065 |
 | 19   | Volcarona       |  52072 |  8.6890 |
 | 20   | Starmie         |  49991 |  8.3417 |
 | 21   | Gyarados        |  46153 |  7.7013 |
 | 22   | Hydreigon       |  42618 |  7.1114 |
 | 23   | Forretress      |  41393 |  6.9070 |
 | 24   | Blissey         |  40940 |  6.8314 |
 | 25   | Infernape       |  39458 |  6.5841 |
 | 26   | Ninetales       |  37550 |  6.2658 |
 | 27   | Vaporeon        |  35047 |  5.8481 |
 | 28   | Salamence       |  34864 |  5.8176 |
 | 29   | Breloom         |  32410 |  5.4081 |
 | 30   | Chandelure      |  31648 |  5.2809 |
 | 31   | Scrafty         |  31427 |  5.2441 |
 | 32   | Tentacruel      |  31247 |  5.2140 |
 | 33   | Metagross       |  31188 |  5.2042 |
 | 34   | Terrakion       |  31080 |  5.1862 |
 | 35   | Swampert        |  30888 |  5.1541 |
 | 36   | Haxorus         |  29906 |  4.9903 |
 | 37   | Lucario         |  28559 |  4.7655 |
 | 38   | Cloyster        |  28456 |  4.7483 |
 | 39   | Hippowdon       |  28282 |  4.7193 |
 | 40   | Magnezone       |  27769 |  4.6337 |
 | 41   | Deoxys-S        |  27314 |  4.5577 |
 | 42   | Machamp         |  26504 |  4.4226 |
 | 43   | Landorus        |  26297 |  4.3880 |
 | 44   | Whimsicott      |  25583 |  4.2689 |
 | 45   | Latias          |  25340 |  4.2284 |
 | 46   | Bronzong        |  25206 |  4.2060 |
 | 47   | Mienshao        |  24469 |  4.0830 |
 | 48   | Darmanitan      |  23841 |  3.9782 |
 | 49   | Toxicroak       |  23494 |  3.9203 |
 | 50   | Virizion        |  23124 |  3.8586 |
 | 51   | Venusaur        |  21397 |  3.5704 |
 | 52   | Porygon2        |  20833 |  3.4763 |
 | 53   | Tornadus        |  20586 |  3.4351 |
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
Everything not in this list is either already in Ubers or considered UU at this point. Much like Gen. 4, it is expected that UU will become a more solid tier as time passes.

Last edited by Alakazamaster; May 9, 2011 at 03:28:51 PM.
  #2  
Old May 9, 2011, 04:09:43 PM
Ditto616's Avatar
Ditto616 Ditto616 is offline
Moderator

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 982
Default

It's nice to finally know an OU list, but nothing is set in stone. It's definitely going to shift. It sure is going to be an interesting metagame, that's for sure.
  #3  
Old May 9, 2011, 04:46:12 PM
Magmaster12's Avatar
Magmaster12 Magmaster12 is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: You would know
Posts: 4,960
Default

What I'm really suprised by is how close Espeon got into OU.

I was close to switching to UU if Infernape was gonna be left behind but it wasn't so I'm relieved.

I also find it funny how Kingdra is now UU when they were trying to ban it.
  #4  
Old May 9, 2011, 04:53:45 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
What I'm really suprised by is how close Espeon got into OU.

I was close to switching to UU if Infernape was gonna be left behind but it wasn't so I'm relieved.

I also find it funny how Kingdra is now UU when they were trying to ban it.
Such is the result of Swift Swim being banned... I guess that the addition of tons of Dragon-types just made it too difficult for something like Kingdra to thrive, especially since its stats were only decent.
  #5  
Old May 9, 2011, 09:16:10 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

Who isn't using Reuniclus and why? I'm at least comforted knowing that my current team is still mixed tier albeit leaning towards OU.

Also.

Excadrill.

Is RIGHT ****ING THERE.

7th most used in OU? That's amazing.
  #6  
Old May 10, 2011, 02:46:55 AM
Magmaster12's Avatar
Magmaster12 Magmaster12 is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: You would know
Posts: 4,960
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
Who isn't using Reuniclus and why?
I'm not, considering the fact it's weak to nearly half of all the OU pokemon.
  #7  
Old May 10, 2011, 03:48:30 AM
Technomancer's Avatar
Technomancer Technomancer is offline
Haxorus
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ecruteak City, Johto
Posts: 490
Default

I'm surprised in finding Cofagrigus isn't in that list.

Are people not aware of her insane defensive capabilities?
  #8  
Old May 10, 2011, 06:43:53 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .name//Technomancer View Post
I'm surprised in finding Cofagrigus isn't in that list.

Are people not aware of her insane defensive capabilities?
Although he is defensive, his HP is quite low, preventing him from succeeding in the role of a wall. Other ghosts, like Jellicent, are more efficient.
  #9  
Old May 10, 2011, 08:05:40 AM
TrdrsPokeTrader's Avatar
TrdrsPokeTrader TrdrsPokeTrader is offline
Celebi
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,457
Default

Finally a B&W OU list! Now I can get to work on a new Gym Team thats way better than the crappy one I had before!
  #10  
Old May 10, 2011, 10:11:52 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Finally! I've been anticipating a proper list of OU Pokémon for a long time. Now when exams finish and summer begins, I'll have something to keep me busy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .name//Technomancer View Post
I'm surprised in finding Cofagrigus isn't in that list.

Are people not aware of her insane defensive capabilities?
Aside from what Spirit said, its movepool is incredibly shallow, too.

Last edited by Shadow; May 10, 2011 at 10:33:02 AM.
  #11  
Old May 10, 2011, 04:49:17 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
I'm not, considering the fact it's weak to nearly half of all the OU pokemon.
You will die to every Trick Room team imaginable.
  #12  
Old May 10, 2011, 05:37:44 PM
Sunny's Avatar
Sunny Sunny is offline
Keldeo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Under yo bed. :V
Posts: 1,176
Default

Wow ferrathorns at the top? I'm not surprised. That things everywhere!

Kinda sad Zoroark didn't make the cut. Sure its movepool is limited, but I thought it would get a lil more usage because of its illusion shenanigans.
  #13  
Old May 10, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
Sableyed's Avatar
Sableyed Sableyed is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: A World Pure of Imagination
Posts: 999
Default

Good to see a lot of my favorites on there, Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, Darmanitan. Sableye ranked 41st and Dream World stats, so he should shoot up as soon as he's released. Togekiss and Quagsire just missed the cutoff, but they're still pretty viable. My only concern is how low Meloetta is in DW, but we'll see how things change.
  #14  
Old May 10, 2011, 07:20:20 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

*notices Sable's post and then checks Ala's opening post*

...

YYYYYYEEEESSSSS REUNICLUS MADE IT ONTO THERE.

  #15  
Old May 10, 2011, 07:37:51 PM
FreezeWarp's Avatar
FreezeWarp FreezeWarp is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,192
Default

Hm... That means 12 of my team are in the list. Doesn't give me much variety for Underused to say the least (its been a while due to school, so in truth I'm not even sure if I could make a team of six in the remains).

APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
Total Battles: 299644
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| 4 | Garchomp | 109670 | 18.3000 |
| 14 | Dragonite | 60079 | 10.0251 |
| 16 | Gengar | 57689 | 9.6263 |
| 21 | Gyarados | 46153 | 7.7013 |
| 22 | Hydreigon | 42618 | 7.1114
| 25 | Infernape | 39458 | 6.5841 |
| 30 | Chandelure | 31648 | 5.2809 |
| 33 | Metagross | 31188 | 5.2042 |
| 36 | Haxorus | 29906 | 4.9903 |
| 37 | Lucario | 28559 | 4.7655 |
| 40 | Magnezone | 27769 | 4.6337
| 52 | Porygon2 | 20833 | 3.4763 |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
  #16  
Old May 10, 2011, 08:27:58 PM
GrassPokemonFTW's Avatar
GrassPokemonFTW GrassPokemonFTW is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: [INSERT GENERIC LOCATION HERE]
Posts: 2,262
Default

YESZ! Even though there's only 5 Grass Pokemon on the list, THIS IS AWESOME! We're up to 5! So let's see here...

Ferrothorn, Breloom, Whimsicott, Virizion, and Venusaur is OU now...so what happened to Roserade and Celebi? Are they...not OU anymore, or...?
  #17  
Old May 10, 2011, 08:36:29 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny View Post
Wow ferrathorns at the top? I'm not surprised. That things everywhere!

Kinda sad Zoroark didn't make the cut. Sure its movepool is limited, but I thought it would get a lil more usage because of its illusion shenanigans.
Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, and Agility are all lots of fun, but Illusionist turned out to be less impressive than originally hoped for. Entry hazards kind of give you away, since you'll be a Gyarados that takes Spikes damage and only a little bit of damage from Stealth Rock. ;~;

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassPokemonFTW View Post
YESZ! Even though there's only 5 Grass Pokemon on the list, THIS IS AWESOME! We're up to 5! So let's see here...

Ferrothorn, Breloom, Whimsicott, Virizion, and Venusaur is OU now...so what happened to Roserade and Celebi? Are they...not OU anymore, or...?
Celebi dropped down to the low 69, falling behind Pokemon like Donphan and Kingdra, while Roserade sunk even lower to 103, where it technically makes the cut for the unofficial UU list. Very last one to make that tier, actually, which is a little surprising for a Pokemon that worked so well last gen.

Last edited by Alakazamaster; May 10, 2011 at 08:38:29 PM.
  #18  
Old May 10, 2011, 08:57:01 PM
Sunny's Avatar
Sunny Sunny is offline
Keldeo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Under yo bed. :V
Posts: 1,176
Default

Damn Kazam with dat godlike insight~!
It seems like if ya wanna use zoroark you have to make a team built around him. He needs a good partner to hide as (I prefer bulky ghost types like dusknoir and confagrigus) and a rapid spinner. I just think it's interesting since hes such a frail pokemon, but when hes under cover as a ghost type he can sponge a few dark type hits that come his way and 2HKO pokemon that would normally 1HKO him. If his presents is revealed to the other team its like a constant mindgame! Like for example. I use the dusknoir, zoroark combo. When they figure out "Oh he hides zoroark as dusknoir" I start to send out dusknoir. They get so psyched out thinking its zoroark that they use a less effective move and let dusknoir set up a bit.

I'm not saying he should be OU, but he does have potential imo. C:

also..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazamaster View Post
low 69
Hurhurhur
  #19  
Old May 11, 2011, 07:44:04 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Zoroark is a tricky foe. It always surprises me as a lead, and needs a lot of effort to get rid of it. Although it is not an OU, yet it would make it to BL. I am actually surprised to see Scizor in the top list, although I have seen few of it.

Last edited by The Spirit of Time; May 11, 2011 at 07:44:12 AM.
  #20  
Old May 11, 2011, 11:20:12 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

I forgot to mention that I'm particularly happy to see Toxicroak make it to OU. After facing it in the metagame-testing phase several times, it became evident how much Toxicroak gained from this transition. Now I'm excited to try out the new metagame once I configure PO on my laptop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassPokemonFTW View Post
YESZ! Even though there's only 5 Grass Pokemon on the list, THIS IS AWESOME! We're up to 5! So let's see here...

Ferrothorn, Breloom, Whimsicott, Virizion, and Venusaur is OU now...so what happened to Roserade and Celebi? Are they...not OU anymore, or...?
Yeah, it's a little surprising to see Celebi drop to the lower tiers. But to be honest, its typing is awful and gives it numerous weaknesses, and with the new metagame being quick-paced/offensive, Celebi's flaws became amplified.

Last edited by Shadow; May 11, 2011 at 11:20:36 AM.
  #21  
Old May 11, 2011, 01:26:06 PM
RK-9 RK-9 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: tacoville
Posts: 500
Default

Where's my Arcanine? :<
  #22  
Old May 11, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
zsaberslash's Avatar
zsaberslash zsaberslash is offline
Volcarona
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Posts: 565
Default

I'm not surprised to see Garchomp, Skarmory and Salamence in OU. Though I'm surprised not to see Cobalion in there. Oh well.
  #23  
Old May 11, 2011, 04:27:24 PM
Blues Blues is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazamaster View Post
Swift Swim being banned.
UM, WHAT?





I haven't really been keeping up with all the Gen. 5 stuff, but are you serious? Swift Swim was banned?
  #24  
Old May 11, 2011, 04:50:14 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues View Post
UM, WHAT?





I haven't really been keeping up with all the Gen. 5 stuff, but are you serious? Swift Swim was banned?
Swift Swim + Drizzle = banned.

MY BAAAAAAD.

But yeah the combo was banned, screwing with the potential of new and old Swift Swimmers alike. Kingdra would be in the top 10 if the combo was still allowed. Thankfully, Rain still has around 80 thousand other uses, so I have been abusing those as much as possible. :>
  #25  
Old May 11, 2011, 05:15:35 PM
Magmaster12's Avatar
Magmaster12 Magmaster12 is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: You would know
Posts: 4,960
Default

Wait did they ban baton pass too?

If not then why is Mew in UU?
  #26  
Old May 11, 2011, 07:07:06 PM
Sableyed's Avatar
Sableyed Sableyed is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: A World Pure of Imagination
Posts: 999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RK-9 View Post
Where's my Arcanine? :<
Arcanine is ranked #72, so it's still pretty OU viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
Wait did they ban baton pass too?

If not then why is Mew in UU?
It's not, The stats are based on usage of things that aren't banned, and Mew just isn't that used, I guess. Wobbuffet is ranked #141, so he'll probably be NU, which is kind of ridiculous

Last edited by Sableyed; May 11, 2011 at 07:10:11 PM.
  #27  
Old May 11, 2011, 07:18:02 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sableyed View Post
Wobbuffet is ranked #141, so he'll probably be NU, which is kind of ridiculous
Maybe if Encore wasn't neutered to a measly 3 turns Wobbuffet would still have a chance. ;~; Encore was such a fun status condition, too.

As for Arcanine, his role is generally fulfilled by the six Fire-types already in OU. Gee, the Fire-type sure got some neat tricks this gen...
  #28  
Old May 11, 2011, 08:59:39 PM
Sunny's Avatar
Sunny Sunny is offline
Keldeo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Under yo bed. :V
Posts: 1,176
Default

Wait mews legal...?

HOLY ****!




I HAVE THE POWER!!!!
...to use any TM I want on this pokemon. :3
  #29  
Old May 11, 2011, 10:02:42 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

Emboar's still outclassed by Infernsuck though. I guess it's not as much of a quick sweeper as it is a basic physical attacker, so that's probably why.

I'm also surprised not many people are using DW Serperior.
  #30  
Old May 12, 2011, 07:26:46 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
I'm also surprised not many people are using DW Serperior.
Despite Perversity, Serperior still suffers from a pretty limited movepool and relatively mediocre stats. What with the new offensive threats like Excadrill and the likes, it must be very hard to fit Serperior into a team without essentially 'wasting' the slot for better choices.
  #31  
Old May 13, 2011, 06:37:39 PM
GrassPokemonFTW's Avatar
GrassPokemonFTW GrassPokemonFTW is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: [INSERT GENERIC LOCATION HERE]
Posts: 2,262
Default

Oh, a question: Shaymin-S is Ubers, right? Also, where's Shaymin-L?

I'm assuming Shaymin-L like, got destroyed in this or something... ;~;
  #32  
Old May 13, 2011, 09:30:33 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassPokemonFTW View Post
Oh, a question: Shaymin-S is Ubers, right? Also, where's Shaymin-L?

I'm assuming Shaymin-L like, got destroyed in this or something... ;~;
Shaymin-S is partying in Ubers, while Shaymin-L is sitting at 93 behind Charizard and Spiritomb. Poor thing! The Grass-types of Gen 4's OU seem to be facing trouble. (with the obvious exception of Breloom...)
  #33  
Old May 14, 2011, 04:22:43 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsaberslash View Post
Though I'm surprised not to see Cobalion in there. Oh well.
I personally tried Cobalion for few days and I found out a lot of weaknesses related to it. Both of its attacking stats are not really great, surfing at the edge of 90. In terms of typing, Lucario has the same type yet with superior stats, better movepool and a +2 priority. Lucario outclasses it in everything. Further more, Terrakion can take the role of a fast, devastating Swords Dancer better than Cobalion. I did expect such an end for Cobalion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
Wait did they ban baton pass too?

If not then why is Mew in UU?
Mew is only used as a lead for the sake of Baton Pass and/or Taunt. Pranksters are everywhere now and are able to perform the Taunt role in a better way.
  #34  
Old May 14, 2011, 04:54:54 PM
Fly Guy 2's Avatar
Fly Guy 2 Fly Guy 2 is offline
Charizard
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 148
Default

where is whimsicott
  #35  
Old May 14, 2011, 06:07:20 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Guy 2 View Post
where is whimsicott
...at spot 44. I hope you read the list.
  #36  
Old May 14, 2011, 07:21:28 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

I'm still reeling over how dragons can be used again for once. Lati@s are OU again. (Yes, they're 40 places apart from each other, but even so.)
  #37  
Old May 14, 2011, 09:26:52 PM
Ultimazone's Avatar
Ultimazone Ultimazone is offline
Haxorus
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Niotacol
Posts: 308
Default

Oh, look. Magnezone, Hydreigon, Scrafty and Chandelure. 4 of my favorite pokemon, all OU. Hooray!
  #38  
Old May 22, 2011, 02:14:28 PM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

Some comments on this list:

1. Ferrothorn beats Forretress so easily this gen because it has so many more possibilities. I'm glad to see this is consistent with Smogon (but fire types can rejoice in being much more useful this time around).

2. Garchomp back out of Ubers? Eh, that's a surprise, but it makes a lot more sense this time around with all the dragon counters.

3. Excadrill almost always has to be paired with Ty or Hippo, so expect a lot of fighting type counters.

4. I hate Politoed.

5. I hate Trick Room.

6. Jellicent is the new Tentacruel, and for good reason. I never got why Tenta was considered OU. He's like the easiest Pokemon for me to kill when people have sent him out so I never got his appeal (lack of counters on other teams?).

7. Skarmory is fighting for his position (but really, with all the new electric types, people better use him carefully).

8. Sort of surprised Hydreigon made it so high on the list. I use one myself, but he needs to prove his worth more in my eyes before I can say he deserves that position (also needs Grey to come out quicker for possible "Move Tutor" moves).

9. I hate Blissey.

10. I refuse to train Scrafty despite his usefulness. He is right next to Stunfisk in my eyes as the top derp Pokemon (and I only train ones that I like).

11. Terrakion!!!

12. Lucario!!!

13. Mienshao (if only because he is HJK spammy)!!!

14. ...Virizion? How did that make the list?

15. Where are my favs? Weavile, Blaziken, Porygon-Z, where did you go?

That is all. :3
  #39  
Old May 22, 2011, 10:40:06 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justjack91 View Post

15. Where are my favs? ... Blaziken ... where did you go?
Ubers is where it went.
  #40  
Old May 23, 2011, 10:05:13 AM
AuraKshatriya's Avatar
AuraKshatriya AuraKshatriya is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
You will die to every Trick Room team imaginable.
Trick Room for the win.
  #41  
Old May 25, 2011, 02:13:35 AM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
Ubers is where it went.
I think his usage should be based on how well Speed Boost actually helps him when used by players. I say he gets a high place in OU as a top predator by the time actual gameplay begins (though being in ubers now makes me a proud Blaze user).
  #42  
Old May 25, 2011, 08:37:00 AM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

This list isn't solid, is it? I keep checking back and as of Ala's last edit Reuniclus and Excadrill are both in the top 10
  #43  
Old May 25, 2011, 10:36:36 AM
KrayzeeGuy's Avatar
KrayzeeGuy KrayzeeGuy is offline
Charizard
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
This list isn't solid, is it? I keep checking back and as of Ala's last edit Reuniclus and Excadrill are both in the top 10
This list is fluid right now, and will be for quite a while, especially when new strategies are discovered.
  #44  
Old May 25, 2011, 10:52:04 AM
Veteran's Avatar
Veteran Veteran is offline
Joltik
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Petalburg
Posts: 10
Default

I wish Weedle was on there...
  #45  
Old May 30, 2011, 03:22:46 PM
7dewott8's Avatar
7dewott8 7dewott8 is offline
Landorus
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,551
Default

Weedle's are like tiny useless bugs in their first and second stage. But they turn into giant evil attack bugs as beedrill. Also, virizon sounds to much like verison
  #46  
Old May 30, 2011, 06:13:31 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justjack91 View Post

6. Jellicent is the new Tentacruel, and for good reason. I never got why Tenta was considered OU. He's like the easiest Pokemon for me to kill when people have sent him out so I never got his appeal (lack of counters on other teams?).
Really late response anyone? Ok!

Tentacruel was used because it was the number one counter to Infernape, since it resisted both of its STAB moves and laughed at Grass Knot, which other Pokemon (Swampert and Suicune) both feared. It also had a very impressive Speed of base 100 and could use Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin on the same set, which were very easy to set up if you switch in on Infernape, which is on a TON of Gen. 4 teams.
  #47  
Old May 31, 2011, 11:00:17 PM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazamaster View Post
Really late response anyone? Ok!

Tentacruel was used because it was the number one counter to Infernape, since it resisted both of its STAB moves and laughed at Grass Knot, which other Pokemon (Swampert and Suicune) both feared. It also had a very impressive Speed of base 100 and could use Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin on the same set, which were very easy to set up if you switch in on Infernape, which is on a TON of Gen. 4 teams.
Oh. I hated Infernape (and could never get good power with him despite my breeding efforts), so that explains why Tentacruel was never a problem. A good Earthquake or Thunderbolt takes it out of commission from just about any major member of my team. Also, I lacked Choice item Pokes so I didn't have to switch often for Toxic Spikes to be an issue.
  #48  
Old June 1, 2011, 09:50:50 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

Where do you guys find this recent list at? If using pokemon in 5th gen. over wifi i need to know whos to be used and whos not to be used. (Smogon has a little Ubers list but thats only for if you plan on playing in there tournaments)
  #49  
Old June 1, 2011, 10:16:53 PM
Velociraptor78's Avatar
Velociraptor78 Velociraptor78 is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central New York
Posts: 817
Default

I'm getting a sick feeling in my stomach.
It means Scizor's gonna get replaced.
  #50  
Old June 2, 2011, 10:11:03 AM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
Where do you guys find this recent list at? If using pokemon in 5th gen. over wifi i need to know whos to be used and whos not to be used. (Smogon has a little Ubers list but thats only for if you plan on playing in there tournaments)
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...11&postcount=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor78 View Post
I'm getting a sick feeling in my stomach.
It means Scizor's gonna get replaced.
Maybe if something else is found that can sweep, revenge kill, scout, or Baton Pass with only one weakness and a massive Attack stat.
  #51  
Old June 2, 2011, 10:54:19 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

So does eveyone have to go by this OU list or not? cause i still havnt tryed my team out yet wit deoxys-D yet.
  #52  
Old June 4, 2011, 08:32:03 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
So does eveyone have to go by this OU list or not? cause i still havnt tryed my team out yet wit deoxys-D yet.
Well its like last generation. No one has to use any OU Pokemon if they don't want to, they just can't use Ubers.
  #53  
Old June 5, 2011, 12:18:30 PM
Sableyed's Avatar
Sableyed Sableyed is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: A World Pure of Imagination
Posts: 999
Default

Well, UU is out, Espeon has risen to OU, and they're introducing a new RU (Rarely Used) tier to offset all the new pokemon.
  #54  
Old June 5, 2011, 02:48:43 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

well i think blaziken can be used right now (even though smogon says its banned) but thats because your using speed boost with him. They should have said ban blaziken in OU with speedboost not the blaze ability too.
  #55  
Old June 6, 2011, 03:43:04 PM
7dewott8's Avatar
7dewott8 7dewott8 is offline
Landorus
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,551
Default

Blaziken is an awasome pokemon.
  #56  
Old June 6, 2011, 07:29:53 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

So if a pokemon is banned to ubers with a dw ability they should just ban the ability instead of the pokemon itself

Last edited by kakashidragon; June 6, 2011 at 07:30:20 PM.
  #57  
Old June 6, 2011, 07:34:04 PM
Sableyed's Avatar
Sableyed Sableyed is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: A World Pure of Imagination
Posts: 999
Default

There's no reason to ban Speed Boost, as Ninjask and Sharpedo use it just fine without being broken. They could ban the pokemon and ability combined, but that's harder to enforce and more comlicated.
  #58  
Old June 7, 2011, 03:46:51 PM
7dewott8's Avatar
7dewott8 7dewott8 is offline
Landorus
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,551
Default

Ninjask is the fastest pokemon in the world. Sharpedo is in the spot very fast
  #59  
Old June 7, 2011, 07:19:45 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

I was just saying if they did this, and why would they do it.
  #60  
Old June 8, 2011, 08:32:28 AM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

Speed Boostiken is combined with Reversal and Focus Sash.

So you can see how that might be a problem.

Last edited by LiteTheIronMan; June 8, 2011 at 08:33:08 AM. Reason: Barring Trick Room, priority moves, slow leads, and faster Pokemon, you won't get the drop on a Speed Boostiken
  #61  
Old June 8, 2011, 03:10:17 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
Speed Boostiken is combined with Reversal and Focus Sash.

So you can see how that might be a problem.
Except that everyone uses entry hazards, priority, and Sand Streamers are just about everywhere.

Last edited by Alakazamaster; June 8, 2011 at 03:10:43 PM.
  #62  
Old June 8, 2011, 04:48:42 PM
AuraKshatriya's Avatar
AuraKshatriya AuraKshatriya is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7dewott8 View Post
Ninjask is the fastest pokemon in the world. Sharpedo is in the spot very fast
Technically, it's the second fastest at the moment. Deoxys' Speed form has a Base 180 Speed stat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazamaster View Post
Except that everyone uses entry hazards, priority, and Sand Streamers are just about everywhere.

Not to mention Trick Room (Yes, I'm aware Lite already mentioned it in his edit, but it deserves a second mention).

Last edited by AuraKshatriya; June 8, 2011 at 04:49:50 PM.
  #63  
Old June 8, 2011, 09:08:53 PM
LiteTheIronMan's Avatar
LiteTheIronMan LiteTheIronMan is offline
Shaymin
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Final Destination
Posts: 2,908
Default

The thing about Speed Boostiken though, is that it's played as a lead. So basically you're counting on not running into like, hazardous weather and/or a non-lead that uses priority moves. A majority of the time you won't, and the rest of the time you'll run into either one or the other and somehow survive.
  #64  
Old June 9, 2011, 11:56:01 AM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
The thing about Speed Boostiken though, is that it's played as a lead. So basically you're counting on not running into like, hazardous weather and/or a non-lead that uses priority moves. A majority of the time you won't, and the rest of the time you'll run into either one or the other and somehow survive.
Uh actually the whole point of Speed Boost Blaziken was as a late-game cleaner. Something as frail as Blaziken shouldn't be out early in the game, since it can't OHKO all Pokemon and would just end up getting easily countered. It was such a vicious force because Pokemon that countered it such as Slowbro and Conkeldurr could be put out of the way, and it could destroy anything left without any difficultly. Using it as a lead also keeps it from fighting in the sun, which is extremely key to using it so that one has access to SolarBeam and a more powerful Fire Blast.
  #65  
Old June 14, 2011, 03:21:07 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justjack91 View Post
4. I hate Politoed.
Mind sharing some of the common strategies used with Drizzle Politoed? I'm interested to see how people are coping with the ban of Swift Swim + Drizzle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sableyed View Post
Well, UU is out, Espeon has risen to OU, and they're introducing a new RU (Rarely Used) tier to offset all the new pokemon.
Oh, does that mean the BL tier will be eliminated? If not, then how will it differ from the RU tier?
  #66  
Old June 14, 2011, 05:17:51 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

RU sounds better than UU
  #67  
Old June 14, 2011, 10:11:04 PM
Sableyed's Avatar
Sableyed Sableyed is offline
Regigigas
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: A World Pure of Imagination
Posts: 999
Default

The tier order is:
Ubers
OU
BL
UU
RU
NU

Ubers and BL are banlists for OU and UU, and RU is a tier below UU, but above NU.
  #68  
Old June 14, 2011, 10:17:49 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

well at least it makes the game a little more fun by adding a new tier to the mix. Edit:smogon says garchomp is baned from OU again, i never got the chance to use him yet in B/W. Well anyone i battle after nytz will see garchomp for the time in OU before VR changes the rules for this.

Last edited by kakashidragon; June 15, 2011 at 01:18:02 PM.
  #69  
Old June 20, 2011, 03:48:06 PM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Mind sharing some of the common strategies used with Drizzle Politoed? I'm interested to see how people are coping with the ban of Swift Swim + Drizzle.
DW Politoed is why I said this (in that it's the only reason he's gained usage in OU), so I hope I'm not misinterpreted. And yeah, I could easily make use of him with my Rain Dish Quagsire, Specs Hydreigon, and Calm Mind Suicune (but not Surfing Pika; what a shame about those HM restrictions when transfering ), but I don't want to (or am not allowed, whatever the situation).

I hated that toad in Gold and Silver as much as I hated Blissey based solely on lousy stats and design (not so much based on stats for Blissey; she's useful). I refuse to train those that are considered "competitive" if I don't like them. If I have to lose to a Drizzle Team, so be it. Weather seems to be its only real use anyways.

Annoying toads. Should have stopped with Slippy from SF64.
  #70  
Old June 20, 2011, 10:38:48 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Mind sharing some of the common strategies used with Drizzle Politoed? I'm interested to see how people are coping with the ban of Swift Swim + Drizzle.
Well rain in general has proven to be quite helpful to teams, for the following reasons...

The fact that Fire-type moves are weakened in the rain and makes it easier for Pokemon like Ferrothorn to thrive, which secures their position as walls on several rain teams.

Drizzletoed can be used to easily counter opposing weather teams, as Pokemon like Excadrill, Gliscor, Infernape, and Heatran find it harder to thrive under their respective weathers when it is taken away.

The rain benefits a lot of walls on teams like Rotom-W who enjoys boosted Hydro Pumps and the ability to use Thunder freely, Tentacruel can abuse Rain Dish to stay alive for an extended amount of time, Vaporeon can Rest as often as it wants with Hydration, and Bronzong enjoys only having 1/2 of a super-effective weakness.

The 100% accuracy of both Hurricane and Thunder make sweepers like Dragonite, Jolteom Thundurus, Tornadus, and Starmie a lot more happy to play in the rain.

Dry Skin Toxicroak becomes a more serious threat than last generation because of permanent rain making its durability more guaranteed.

Choice Specs Politoed in the rain using Hydro Pump is more than capable of 2HKOing Blissey, as long it hits both times.


Yep, rain sure is something.
  #71  
Old June 21, 2011, 04:12:05 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justjack91 View Post
DW Politoed is why I said this (in that it's the only reason he's gained usage in OU), so I hope I'm not misinterpreted. And yeah, I could easily make use of him with my Rain Dish Quagsire, Specs Hydreigon, and Calm Mind Suicune (but not Surfing Pika; what a shame about those HM restrictions when transfering ), but I don't want to (or am not allowed, whatever the situation).

I hated that toad in Gold and Silver as much as I hated Blissey based solely on lousy stats and design (not so much based on stats for Blissey; she's useful). I refuse to train those that are considered "competitive" if I don't like them. If I have to lose to a Drizzle Team, so be it. Weather seems to be its only real use anyways.

Annoying toads. Should have stopped with Slippy from SF64.
I actually love how Drizzle Politoed jumped up to the OU tier (along with Ninetails). I don't particularly like the Pokémon itself, but the ability it brought is unique and priceless for many Rain fans like me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazamaster View Post
Well rain in general has proven to be quite helpful to teams, for the following reasons...

The fact that Fire-type moves are weakened in the rain and makes it easier for Pokemon like Ferrothorn to thrive, which secures their position as walls on several rain teams.

Drizzletoed can be used to easily counter opposing weather teams, as Pokemon like Excadrill, Gliscor, Infernape, and Heatran find it harder to thrive under their respective weathers when it is taken away.

The rain benefits a lot of walls on teams like Rotom-W who enjoys boosted Hydro Pumps and the ability to use Thunder freely, Tentacruel can abuse Rain Dish to stay alive for an extended amount of time, Vaporeon can Rest as often as it wants with Hydration, and Bronzong enjoys only having 1/2 of a super-effective weakness.

The 100% accuracy of both Hurricane and Thunder make sweepers like Dragonite, Jolteom Thundurus, Tornadus, and Starmie a lot more happy to play in the rain.

Dry Skin Toxicroak becomes a more serious threat than last generation because of permanent rain making its durability more guaranteed.

Choice Specs Politoed in the rain using Hydro Pump is more than capable of 2HKOing Blissey, as long it hits both times.


Yep, rain sure is something.
Thanks a lot for that! You've given me quite a lot of possibilities.
  #72  
Old June 21, 2011, 11:17:14 AM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

I hate weather in competitive play. I know that sounds so noobish to say, but ever since Gold and Silver, I've been rather resilient towards ever incorporating weather into my teams intentionally. The only thing that ever helped was my Tyranitar starting a Sandstorm for Ryperior and Garchomp...and even then it didn't help that much.

Maybe I'm just being too picky about my movesets. I really ought to look into getting this Polieod/Ninetails and seeing how well it could work with a team organized around it.
  #73  
Old June 21, 2011, 12:01:57 PM
kakashidragon's Avatar
kakashidragon kakashidragon is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where i belong
Posts: 2,055
Default

in doubles i rather use rain and sun, in singles i'd rather just use the sand and hail.
  #74  
Old June 22, 2011, 02:50:26 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justjack91 View Post
I hate weather in competitive play. I know that sounds so noobish to say, but ever since Gold and Silver, I've been rather resilient towards ever incorporating weather into my teams intentionally. The only thing that ever helped was my Tyranitar starting a Sandstorm for Ryperior and Garchomp...and even then it didn't help that much.

Maybe I'm just being too picky about my movesets. I really ought to look into getting this Polieod/Ninetails and seeing how well it could work with a team organized around it.
Personally, I think of weather teams as challenging both to construct and to operate. You have to worry about keeping the weather up (although to a less extent now) and preventing your main sweepers from fainting. It's worth noting that I've always been a fan of Rain teams in particular since Gen IV. So I hate it when new noobs slam any weather inducer into their team and then combine all top-tier Pokemon (like Excadrill) without putting thought into organizing their strategies. This just adds people like me to the stereotypical image which other people have of weather users. =/
  #75  
Old August 19, 2011, 07:23:32 PM
Relix's Avatar
Relix Relix is offline
Cyndaquil
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 25
Default

Oh boy scrafty is in OU,
also is ferrothorn really used that much?
  #76  
Old August 20, 2011, 06:50:47 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relix View Post
Oh boy scrafty is in OU,
also is ferrothorn really used that much?
Ferrothorn is the most used OU Pokémon; quite bulky; can use Stealth Rock, Spikes and Leech Seed; 10 resistances; an immunity... You got the image.
  #77  
Old September 3, 2011, 09:31:28 AM
Fly Guy 2's Avatar
Fly Guy 2 Fly Guy 2 is offline
Charizard
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 148
Default

Am I the only one who thinks Ferrothorn would destroy everything during a Trick Room?
  #78  
Old September 3, 2011, 09:43:47 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Guy 2 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Ferrothorn would destroy everything during a Trick Room?
Undoubtedly, it is strong, yet there are still slow Pokémon that are capable of countering it.
  #79  
Old September 3, 2011, 10:20:24 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spirit of Time View Post
Undoubtedly, it is strong, yet there are still slow Pokémon that are capable of countering it.
Mind listing some of these Pokémon? I just made a search on Smogon's Pokédex for all tiers, and there's only one Pokémon from the UU tier which ties with Ferrothorn's 20 base speed stat: Escavalier. On top of that, there are two Pokémon slower than Ferrothorn, Torkoal and Shuckle, but both of them are in the NU tier. So speaking purely from a base speed perspective, it is theoretically impossible to outpace Ferrothorn under Trick Room with a fully-evolved Pokémon.
  #80  
Old September 4, 2011, 02:41:20 PM
Justjack91's Avatar
Justjack91 Justjack91 is offline
Zoroark
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Mind listing some of these Pokémon? I just made a search on Smogon's Pokédex for all tiers, and there's only one Pokémon from the UU tier which ties with Ferrothorn's 20 base speed stat: Escavalier. On top of that, there are two Pokémon slower than Ferrothorn, Torkoal and Shuckle, but both of them are in the NU tier. So speaking purely from a base speed perspective, it is theoretically impossible to outpace Ferrothorn under Trick Room with a fully-evolved Pokémon.
My, aren't you thorough.

In truth, only curse-boosted Pokemon could probably beat Ferrothorn in speed with TR assuming it doesn't have Curse up first (then it's kind of scary to think what would happen). Timing is everything though. If it gets Mach Punched by any Pokemon, slow or fast (I'm looking at you Conkledurr), then it gets ruined real quick (forced to switch to Dusknoir or something else slower than Conkledurr to gain TR benefits).

Then again, priority ruins Ferro anytime so it's not like he's not use to having problems with Pokemon like that.

Last edited by Justjack91; September 4, 2011 at 02:41:47 PM.
  #81  
Old September 4, 2011, 03:16:47 PM
Alakazamaster's Avatar
Alakazamaster Alakazamaster is offline
Kyurem
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: My own Private Idaho
Posts: 2,400
Default

Yeah, except for the fact that 94 Speed is not particularly impressive. Then take into account that Ferrothorn's attacking moves leave much to be desired, especially if your opponent has a Steel-type on their team. (Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, Metagross, Magnezone)

Also, since Ferrothorn can't set up its own Trick Room, he has to rely on a very brief period to attack, where he can take down two maybe three enemies, if the opponent has no idea what to do. After that time is up, Ferrothron's horrible Fire weakness can be abuses, since everyone should have a Fire-type move these days.

Just my take on it.
  #82  
Old September 5, 2011, 04:53:08 AM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Mind listing some of these Pokémon? I just made a search on Smogon's Pokédex for all tiers, and there's only one Pokémon from the UU tier which ties with Ferrothorn's 20 base speed stat: Escavalier. On top of that, there are two Pokémon slower than Ferrothorn, Torkoal and Shuckle, but both of them are in the NU tier. So speaking purely from a base speed perspective, it is theoretically impossible to outpace Ferrothorn under Trick Room with a fully-evolved Pokémon.
When it comes to Trick Room, tiers don't help at all. Many strong Pokémon are sent to UU/NU because of their lack of speed. Therefore, you need to think in the opposite way if you want to succeed in Trick Room.

In terms of Ferrothorn, there are two major sets that can be used; a Choice Band set and a Curse set. In both the sets, the three major moves that would be used are Gyro Ball, Power Whip and Explosion as a last resort. Skarmory and Bronzong resist all of these moves, and in terms of Skarmory, which is an OU by the way, it can Roost any damage. In fact, any bulky Steel type, like Escavalier, like example, is able to resist Ferrothorn. Moreover, Torkoal, which is indeed NU, is actually used in Trick Room and one Overheat from it will OHKO Ferrothorn. The fact that after entry hazard's damage, many Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave are able to KO Ferrothorn too.

I am not saying it is not strong in Trick Room, but it is also not the most unstoppable one; there are still counters to it.
  #83  
Old September 5, 2011, 09:45:59 AM
Shadow's Avatar
Shadow Shadow is offline
Giratina
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spirit of Time View Post
In terms of Ferrothorn, there are two major sets that can be used; a Choice Band set and a Curse set. In both the sets, the three major moves that would be used are Gyro Ball, Power Whip and Explosion as a last resort. Skarmory and Bronzong resist all of these moves, and in terms of Skarmory, which is an OU by the way, it can Roost any damage.

But I don't think it can take Ferrothorn out this way.

In fact, any bulky Steel type, like Escavalier, like example, is able to resist Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn can easily Leech Seed such opponents to regain HP and with Leftovers, the most commonly used item on Ferrothorn, I don't think slow, opposing Steel-types are going to be such a big problem Trick Room-wise. Oh, and I'd like to say that the moves you mentioned are missing Bulldoze, which is pretty viable once you Curse multiple times and will make Ferrothorn able to sweep a couple Steel-types to some extent.

Moreover, Torkoal, which is indeed NU, is actually used in Trick Room and one Overheat from it will OHKO Ferrothorn. The fact that after entry hazard's damage, many Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave are able to KO Ferrothorn too.

Priority does KO Ferrothorn, especially from strong Pokemon like Conkeldurr. However, Torkoal is not popularly used under Trick Room.

I am not saying it is not strong in Trick Room, but it is also not the most unstoppable one; there are still counters to it.

No one said it's invincible. BUT, considering its base speed, no major Pokemon in today's metagame can outpace Ferrothorn under Trick Room (barring priority and other special cases). If Ferrothorn had the physical prowess and the movepool to really back this up, it would become the best Trick Room abuser in the whole metagame.
Comments in bold. Even though Ferrothorn is not normally seen as a sweeper, I believe that if a Cursing set is used under Trick Room, Ferrothorn might have the potential to do decently on the offensive side and magnificently on the defensive side.

Last edited by Shadow; September 5, 2011 at 09:47:58 AM.
  #84  
Old September 5, 2011, 12:18:32 PM
The Spirit of Time's Avatar
The Spirit of Time The Spirit of Time is offline
Rayquaza
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 4,208
Default

I have already faced a Cursed Ferrothorn under Trick Room. It is indeed strong, but can still be countered, especially Skarmory, which learns Taunt and can PP stall Ferrothorn quite well. It leaves it no choice but to switch out.

What Kaz mentioned is also an important idea; Ferrothorn won't gain more than 3 or 4 turns to sweep, which gives an average of 2 KO the most, and usually less than that if countered well. After that, it will be in danger of fire and fight moves, but then again, that's a problem that every Trick Room sweeper faces. Nevertheless, there are other Steel types that can be a better option than Ferrrothorn when it comes to be a Trick Room sweeper.
 
Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Victory Road ©2006 - 2018, Scott Cat333Pokémon Cheney
Theme by A'bom and Cat333Pokémon