493: Do you really need them all?

[Justjack91]

Heya guys.

I've always wanted to talk about this, so here it goes.

In the game of Pokemon, we get starters that tend to be superior than the ones that are available to catch early on. Some of us may choose to not use these starters, but in most cases we tend to make these our main Pokemon in any team.

Then there's a bird, a bug, and a generally useful other few Pokemon you decide to use through part of the game to get a team started for gym leaders. Sometimes you go through the entire gym challenge with just this team, but chances are, you're gonna switch to a more convenient Pokemon that has better abilities (perhaps a Dratini from Celedon City or a Gibble down the bicycle route).

For the story in the game of Pokemon, we as trainers tend to train about (give or take) 12 Pokemon out of a typical 100 total at some point. After the extras, these 12 tend to get stored away and (perhaps) forgotten in your PC so you can breed for other Pokemon or just breeze through the extra content with a powerhouse legendary.

But here's my point: sure you are encouraged to go and catch all 493 Pokemon, but why did they make so many so useless in the long run? We look at the Goldings, the Ledybas, the Finneons, the Ekans, the Glameows, the Spinaracks, and so many other Pokemon who we might like to train for competition and tier reasons, but why would you want to suffer with some of these Pokemon?

I know you might say that it's to let you be able to kill them easily in the game, and yes we all have to fight easy opponents for the weaker and promising Pokemon to level up, but do we have to skip training so many Pokemon when it just doesn't make sense why they suck so much?

A good example was during the Johto series in Gold and Silver. Let's face it: back in the old days, that was a hard game! The Pokemon weren't as strong in that series except for a key few. It was hard to make a solid team without multiple cartridges to aid in link trades for evolution (Scizor, Machamp, and Gengar to name a few useful Pokemon). You just seem so limited at times on what to use.

Since the generation shift (DPPt), some Pokemon have fared better (namely Sneasel, Ferraligatr, all "punching" Pokemon, any new evolution Pokemon, and many others move-wise and power-wise), but it's still hard to say "I'm going to train a Wooper!" when you know you really don't want to.

This is all opinion, but it's sad that some Pokemon have fewer advantages than disadvantages. Some Pokemon generally suck and are fodder for us to kill.

The question is why do so many have to be bad when only a key few are really useful?

Feel free to post your thoughts.

And sorry this is so long lol.

[Sunny]

Aww forgive me but I kinda skimmed this, but I think I get the general gist of what your saying.

The "tiers" have a good way of evening this out like NU/UU/ and OU so that every pokemon can battle in there own environment, but there are some completely useless and unnecessary pokemon out there. Corsola, Spinda, and farfetch too name a few. However I think these pokemon are there to be improved on for the next gen via evolution or added moves and abilities. The metagame will be ever changing and no pokemon will stay useless for ever....unless your name is farfetch'd. Seriously him and the previously mentioned need an evolution bad. :l
.....
Also close combat for Weavile. =w=

[Sableyed]

Nearly every pokemon can be useful in battle, and every pokemon is somebody's favorite. The games give you a diverse group of pokemon so you don't always rely on the top tier pokemon but can do something a bit more unique. Not to mention the point of the original games was to "Catch 'em all", and it's still a goal in the current games. And FYI, Quagsire is one of my favorite pokemon and he's actually quite useful on my team.

[GreenLiquid]

I think what Game Freak realized with Pokémon fairly quickly is that balancing the main game is a moot point, since a player can easily win by simply overleveling. A Level 100 anything (except perhaps a Magikarp) can sweep the Elite Four. So, really, most of the problems with balance don't exist within the 'storyline' of the game, since the player can just grind for additional levels if they need to.

Multiplayer, on the other hand, is a different beast entirely when it comes to balancing. The most important rule that any video game developer has learned about balancing multiplayer, either the easy way or the hard way, is that it is impossible to balance multiplayer via internal playtesting. It will never happen, because competitve players are extremely clever, and will find a way to upset the game's balance without question. Since Pokémon games can't be patched, certain monsters will inevitably rise in the metagame as new strategies are discovered and put to use. Game Freak's attitude in not working tirelessly to balance is justified in my eyes because all of the balancing in the world can be made useless when the community finds one little tactic or exploit that the developers missed.

Another way to see it is that having unbalanced Pokémon brings some 'realism' into the game. The legendaries should be powerful because they're, well, legendaries. Nobody would take them seriously if they could be beaten by an equal level Spinarak or Farfetch'd. If anything, for the sake of realism, the legendaries should be made even more powerful, since I would contend that not a single non-legendary should be able to defeat, say, the god of time (Dialga). What Game Freak's done, I think, is found a happy middle between making Legendaries powerful enough to be special, but no so strong as to become the only viable Pokémon.

That said though, some of the evolutionless Pokémon mentioned above really do need to have their max stat caps boosted. They're so useless it's not even funny.

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by Sableyed

And FYI, Quagsire is one of my favorite pokemon and he's actually quite useful on my team.

THIS~! Don't you be dissing quagsire. ;3
I heard in HG/SS he's now able to learn recover. Something that sets him apart from swampert. =w=

[Justjack91]

Glad to have gotten some great responses to this. Thanks for reading my post and being considerate in your responses.

And just to get this out of the way, I have nothing against Quagsire. I was fan of wanting to train one in Gold and Silver, but whenever I tried to train a Wooper in any game, it ended up taking too long and he just seemed to lack raw power. Also, I always hate fighting one because I never have a grass type lol.

Quagsire is a fine Pokemon though that you guys (and Game Freak) torture me with lol.

Sunny makes good points with tiers (and I wrote of this too), but again, he mentions Pokemon that still haven't gotten an "improved" evolution that just seem obnoxious to train in the first place. Game Freak might or might not have expected the fan-based "tiers" to develop, but I don't think they planned for it well either way.

If Game Freak appeals more to the hardcore players, I think they'll make games that take account for these tiers more often (specifically for in-game competitions in the Battle Frontier for example).

Until more of the older Pokemon do gain an evolution (or better stats) that make them worth catching and training, I still wonder why anyone would want to use them outside of them being their favorite (not for usefulness but because they are interesting or cool to them personally).

And Sableyed, I understand the whole point of the games is to "catch them all" (I couldn't agree more), but again, we only use a key few in game (the most being 12 usually) that are considered actually useful before we start training more competitively after the story-mode of the game.

I'm just saying, it's hard to want to use other Pokemon when there are close to 80 that get ignored. In other RPGs, that's usually not the case. Most characters have some useful purpose or special trait, and Game Freak may try to do this with each generation shift (better abilities, moves, etc.), but we still have a decent list of misfits.

@ Greenliquid: I understand very much what you're saying (I play online FPS's like TF2 and know what "exploitation" means in those games lol).

I think the legendaries are strong enough as is however. I miss Mewtwo being the true "uber" of all legendaries from the RBY days, but with so many legendaries out there, I'm glad I stand a chance with my standard tier Pokemon against many of them.

Again, apologies to all you Quagsire fans. Golly, a fan base for a swamp Pokemon like him? I know Croagunk is worshipped, but not Quagsire too lol.

[LiteTheIronMan]

Earning all 493 legitimately is, in my opinion, simply a badge of honor. Of course you'll never use all 493, only your six favorites/strongest. But having achieved that high of a level of expertise in these games automatically gives you some kind of respect.

[Sableyed]

I have completed my pokedex in Diamond, and am working on actually owning all 493 at one time. And yet, I've never raised any pokemon to level 100. I do not have the attention span to. They're two different types of concentration.

[Ningamer]

I've only completed 1 Pokédex in any game - Pokémon Blue. All 151, only glitching for Mew.
I do think there are some pathetic types in general. For instance, I've never found a use for any bug Pokémon, except maybe Heracross. Heracross is part bug, right?

[Alakazamaster]

I completely agree that there are many "useless" pokemon, and have been thinking about the same thing recently. I think that there are 493 pokemon not for the idea of every last one of them to be excellent in battle, but rather they are there as an option for trainers. For example, when I played Gold/Silver I deliberately raised a Forretress, (which is pretty awful if your not using it in competitive play) because I liked Forretress. Also, some pokemon like wooper and butterfree are there for temporary use. Back in RBY it was pretty hard to beat Brock if you had picked charmander, without butterfree's confusion. However, I think Gamefreak could have done a better job making certain pokemon more useful during the game. Cherrim is a bad pokemon, and the fact that you have to catch it by honey-ing up a tree doesnt help its cause. I think that in the next generation they should naturally add new pokemon from new evolutionary lines, but should also focus on giving some of the current pokemon much-needed evolutions. Gliscor and Weavile are prime examples of what can happen to a seemingly useless pokemon.

[Spitfire]

Tiers don't really affect me as I am not a competitive battler (because I hate EV training). Anyway I don't think that they really inspire you to catch um all. I mean even the anime dropped that because Ash was never going to catch um all. So anyway no I don't really think it is necessary to catch um all

[Cat333Pokémon]

*wears badge for complete legit Pokédex*

Anyway, I like the aforementioned idea of a Battle Frontier (or at least a Battle Tower) where you can enter in different tiers. If Game Freak did implement the tiers into the game, I believe that would be where they would put it.

Also, I agree about the disappointing number of useless Pokémon. Why would anyone ever train a <UU/NU Pokémon here> (not mentioning names to avoid flames) when they could easily train a powerhouse on one of the upper tiers. The only three reasons I can think of are: personal liking of that Pokémon, having UU/NU tier battles, and trying out things like my Bibarel Owns the Elite Four.

[Luxray13579]

Like me and Luxray it can be a really good helper in teams but its not in the Uber tier.

[Justjack91]

Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon

*wears badge for complete legit Pokédex*

Anyway, I like the aforementioned idea of a Battle Frontier (or at least a Battle Tower) where you can enter in different tiers. If Game Freak did implement the tiers into the game, I believe that would be where they would put it.

Also, I agree about the disappointing number of useless Pokémon. Why would anyone ever train a <UU/NU Pokémon here> (not mentioning names to avoid flames) when they could easily train a powerhouse on one of the upper tiers. The only three reasons I can think of are: personal liking of that Pokémon, having UU/NU tier battles, and trying out things like my Bibarel Owns the Elite Four.

Oh, we all know your accomplishment with a lousy Pokemon Cat. You count as an exception.

And there are other examples of lousy Pokemon being put to amazing use by people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVgOkZ2IS_4

I look forward to when Game Freak does implement a tier system in-game for players so it's not just part of the fan base. More Pokemon restrictions so that you play against standard tier or underused Pokemon only with a suitable team.

If GF can appeal to the fans more, I think this would be a great idea and would really kill my argument.

@ Luxray: I did mention how some Pokemon are used in game on purpose (I used a Luxray to the Elite Four and Champion). He's there though because you should use him. He's simply a very versatile Pokemon (and one of the few I mentioned earlier that goes with your starter, a bird, a bug, etc.).

[Serenade]

In my opinion, you are partially correct, however the game is about strategies, not base stats, as seen on the npcs of PBR. I have been owned by some of the worst pokemon base stat wise, persian, glameow, etc., all because of how they create the strategy, and I used good pokemon too.(of course I've also owned on wifi with plusle and minun, so I don't completely suck)

Although yes, there are just ridiculously sucky pokemon, that are just there to collect/exist.

Originally Posted by mtdhlite

Earning all 493 legitimately is, in my opinion, simply a badge of honor. Of course you'll never use all 493, only your six favorites/strongest. But having achieved that high of a level of expertise in these games automatically gives you some kind of respect.

Actually, I have and use over 10 different pokes, many of which are at 100, the rest 60+, with exception of machamp that will soon be there.

[The Gambit]

In my opinion, it's all variety. Why would you want the entire Pokedex you hold to be full of over-used Pokemon that can destroy just about anything they come across? Think of Ariados and Victrebel - though they aren't all that useful in a battle against something like Lucario, if they are put against a Pokemon more their calibur, you can invent some new strategies and make some very interesting battles!