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  #1  
Old July 12, 2011, 09:24:03 AM
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Default New Rule Enforcement Methods

NOTE: These methods are only being tested, and may be changed an tweaked to work better.

You may have noticed that in the last few days some members on Victory Road have had their avatars and signatures taken away, and their usergroup changed to "purgatory". This is part of a new method of enforcing the rules more efficiently that the staff are testing:

Infraction Points now have a purpose. In case you don't know, whenever a rule is broken and a moderator deems it worthy of an infraction, an infraction is given out with a number of points tied to it; The more serious the offence the more points (From 0 points to 4 points, with a moderator being able to give more points should he/she feel the offence is more serious). Once a certain amount of time has passed, these points expire and no longer count towards your total amount of active infraction points.

The new system that has been put in place works around infractions and infraction points. Should your total amount of active infraction points reach 2 or more points you will be put in purgatory, where many privileges are taken away (Such as avatars and signatures) and all your posts must first be moderated before they appear on the forums. Moderated posts are still subject to the rules, so if any violations are made within these posts, you may still receive an infraction.

When enough of your points expire to take you below 2 active infraction points your account will become a regular account again.

Should your total amount of active infraction points reach or exceed 5 points you will be banned from Victory Road. As with purgatory, when enough points expire to take you below 5 active infraction points you will be unbanned and put into purgatory or become a regular user again, depending on the amount of active infraction points you still have left.

We hope this new method of dealing with troublemakers will make Victory Road a nicer and friendlier place! Please post any questions or comments below.

Last edited by Ningamer; July 12, 2011 at 09:32:36 AM.
  #2  
Old July 12, 2011, 09:44:35 AM
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Hopefully the moderators won't abuse this actually.
  #3  
Old July 12, 2011, 10:45:28 AM
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I like the idea and think it should be enforced in every way. Think of it like this: you're a child and your mother takes away your favorite toy because you're misbehaving. Kind of like that, removing privileges sort of thing.
  #4  
Old July 12, 2011, 11:28:24 AM
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I think this is a wonderful idea. I just don't want people complaining about the rules. As long as the moderators don't go away giving points willy-nilly, I'm good. Not that I'm worried about getting points, I'm just looking out for fellow VR members.

And just a suggestion, how about posting limits? If you are in purgatory, you only get x posts per day, or something like that.
  #5  
Old July 12, 2011, 11:41:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mariothecellist View Post
And just a suggestion, how about posting limits? If you are in purgatory, you only get x posts per day, or something like that.
It's a good idea, but I've had a lot of problems with that in the past. Like in youtube, when they put a limit to comments forever ago, I'd be able to post 10 comments one day, then a week later it would only let me put one in.

As long as vBulletin isn't that glitchy, I'm fine.
  #6  
Old July 12, 2011, 11:48:35 AM
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WHat if a Moderator gives an infraction that they dont deserve?
  #7  
Old July 12, 2011, 12:01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PHANTOMxTRAINER View Post
WHat if a Moderator gives an infraction that they dont deserve?
take it up to the higher-ups and they'll decide if you need it or not, however, complaining can just get you more infractions, so basically do /only/ one PM.

Last edited by JC; July 12, 2011 at 12:03:44 PM.
  #8  
Old July 12, 2011, 12:08:14 PM
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Nah i was just asking.
  #9  
Old July 12, 2011, 01:12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PHANTOMxTRAINER View Post
WHat if a Moderator gives an infraction that they dont deserve?
Then I would assume it would be debated among us staff members. Basically, do what JC and take it to the higher ups and PM them about it.
  #10  
Old July 12, 2011, 02:21:46 PM
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It's a good idea, but I've had a lot of problems with that in the past. Like in youtube, when they put a limit to comments forever ago, I'd be able to post 10 comments one day, then a week later it would only let me put one in.

As long as vBulletin isn't that glitchy, I'm fine.

I don't know what's possible on VR, but including VRIM might be good too. We don't want infinite spam from the purgatorized (verb?) user complaining.
  #11  
Old July 12, 2011, 02:59:42 PM
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I think we should give the users more chances, on the PokeCommunity forums, you can have up to 9 infraction points, so I think that once someone breaks the rules, they have a total of 9 chances, much like the 9 lives of a cat, so one minor offense costs you one point, while more major offenses cost two or three points, once they have a total of 6 points, they lose their priveleges until the points expire. I think this is a better idea because losing priveleges in only 2 points is not enough time, what do you think?
  #12  
Old July 12, 2011, 03:22:51 PM
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We've been giving everyone a free pass to do virtually whatever they want for the past three years. I think that's enough chances, personally.
  #13  
Old July 12, 2011, 03:35:33 PM
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It seems like if you get tons of people in the purgatory group, that'd be a pain to moderate all those posts. Wouldn't it just be easier to ban them for a short while instead and thus making for less mod work as people break the rules?
  #14  
Old July 12, 2011, 03:44:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
Hopefully the moderators won't abuse this actually.
Well, there are those among us who will believe it when they see it

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshArmy View Post
I like the idea and think it should be enforced in every way. Think of it like this: you're a child and your mother takes away your favorite toy because you're misbehaving. Kind of like that, removing privileges sort of thing.
...Horrid metaphor, but meh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WherewolfTherewolf View Post
It seems like if you get tons of people in the purgatory group, that'd be a pain to moderate all those posts. Wouldn't it just be easier to ban them for a short while instead and thus making for less mod work as people break the rules?
Ya know... You /would/ think so.
  #15  
Old July 13, 2011, 10:23:07 AM
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Honestly, I think 2 points is ridiculous; a single infraction can set it off. Secondly, Bulbagarden (which is/was stricter than here) gives a 2-day ban at 10 points, whereas here you get a ban of at least like a month at 5 points.
  #16  
Old July 13, 2011, 12:08:58 PM
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Honestly, I think 2 points is ridiculous; a single infraction can set it off. Secondly, Bulbagarden (which is/was stricter than here) gives a 2-day ban at 10 points, whereas here you get a ban of at least like a month at 5 points.
Strictly speaking purgatory and banning aren't quite the same thing, though.

Not that that fact alone makes it a well-though out idea.

Last edited by FreezeWarp; July 13, 2011 at 12:09:25 PM.
  #17  
Old July 13, 2011, 12:18:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FreezeWarp View Post
Strictly speaking purgatory and banning aren't quite the same thing, though.

Not that that fact alone makes it a well-though out idea.
5 points is a ban, 2 is purgatory. And larger forums tend to more jumpy in giving infractions. You might want to notice how we haven't been properly dealing them out. I've received a couple in the past for tiny things (and had two of them overturned for discussing it with staff).

If it gets bad, we'll raise the thresholds.
  #18  
Old July 13, 2011, 01:43:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon View Post
5 points is a ban, 2 is purgatory. And larger forums tend to more jumpy in giving infractions. You might want to notice how we haven't been properly dealing them out. I've received a couple in the past for tiny things (and had two of them overturned for discussing it with staff).

If it gets bad, we'll raise the thresholds.
You've received or given... The former actually isn't a good thing, and seems more weird than fair... (Sorta like you feel Granny's soft lamb wool has blinded you.)

Also, just for the record, there is no "proper" definition beyond that a site creates for itself. And I never saw those infraction rules you speak of before

Last edited by FreezeWarp; July 13, 2011 at 01:45:07 PM.
  #19  
Old July 13, 2011, 03:05:20 PM
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I would never ever abuse infraction... Yoshi does not have 100 from me.
  #20  
Old July 13, 2011, 03:13:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KingOfKYA View Post
I would never ever abuse infraction... Yoshi does not have 100 from me.
O RLY? Does this refresh your memory?
http://victoryroad.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=177

Source: http://victoryroad.net/showthread.php?t=266
  #21  
Old July 14, 2011, 12:31:37 AM
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I hope i don't get an infractions for abuseing infractions.

Last edited by KingOfKYA; July 14, 2011 at 12:31:57 AM.
  #22  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:04:49 AM
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I must know the location of this button.
  #23  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:42:54 AM
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That image was from when VR used to run on phpBB. In vBulletin, you cannot infract admins.
  #24  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:52:23 AM
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Monster.
  #25  
Old July 14, 2011, 05:52:15 AM
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What about the Purgatory User have a limit of how much they can post in the Fun Board per day, and a limit of used of the VRIM per day?

Last edited by Aquablast; July 14, 2011 at 05:54:17 AM.
  #26  
Old July 14, 2011, 06:59:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Aquablast View Post
What about the Purgatory User have a limit of how much they can post in the Fun Board per day, and a limit of used of the VRIM per day?
It already seems like it's enough extra mod work as it is, all this seems like is just a lighter version of banning to me that requires more toil to enforce - I still think it'd be easier just to ban the user for like 3 days and be done with it instead of having to baby them around the forums every time they want to post. They could even try to post more often when put into purgatory just to be a nuisance to the moderators (which isn't in itself a punishable offense if they're making legitimate posts).
  #27  
Old July 14, 2011, 09:16:56 AM
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Originally Posted by WherewolfTherewolf View Post
It already seems like it's enough extra mod work as it is, all this seems like is just a lighter version of banning to me that requires more toil to enforce - I still think it'd be easier just to ban the user for like 3 days and be done with it instead of having to baby them around the forums every time they want to post. They could even try to post more often when put into purgatory just to be a nuisance to the moderators (which isn't in itself a punishable offense if they're making legitimate posts).
I agree with this, but if Purgatory is still here, then we'll need one or two ast. moderators on EACH BOARD, to make it easier on staff, this actually makes the forums severely currently understaffed, I mean you basically put more work on the existing moderators, some people wants a break, this also includes staff, I'm actually opposed of this version of Purgatory, (Yes I did some sleeping on what I had to think).

Personally, it would be more ideal if people in Purgatory cannot use the "Serious" tags, allow free access in the spam board, your more important boards like Announcements and Pokénews can be restricted, also, even if people have restricted access to uploading pictures, it's actually outrageous, I mean anybody can show a picture on VR it's not hard to do.

And even though if they had free access to the spam board, it's content of what's ideal is dependent of the moderator in charge... (I'm basically saying put three Ast. Mods in the spam board so the mods can regulate each others content, as well as watching the Purgatory members.)

Last edited by JC; July 14, 2011 at 09:34:09 AM. Reason: needs more spacers also word placement
  #28  
Old July 14, 2011, 09:45:37 AM
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To be honest we (Or at least I) don't really have a lot of work to do around the forums, so I don't mind any extra work. Besides, at the moment there aren't many people in Purgatory, I think we can manage for now.

(I do, however, think that 2 points is a little low. Maybe 3 or 4.)
  #29  
Old July 14, 2011, 09:47:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ningamer View Post
To be honest we (Or at least I) don't really have a lot of work to do around the forums, so I don't mind any extra work. Besides, at the moment there aren't many people in Purgatory, I think we can manage for now.

(I do, however, think that 2 points is a little low. Maybe 3 or 4.)
I think more long-term though, I mean eventually this place is going to be with 200+ members a day, one day, gonna be harder to manage.
  #30  
Old July 14, 2011, 12:48:44 PM
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I think more long-term though, I mean eventually this place is going to be with 200+ members a day, one day, gonna be harder to manage.
We can accommodate for that when the time comes, but we're not quite there yet. For now, considering how many active members we have, we should be fine (Maybe one or two new mods fairly soon though).
  #31  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:22:20 PM
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I think more long-term though, I mean eventually this place is going to be with 200+ members a day, one day, gonna be harder to manage.
...This is the forum who suddenly wants fewer people, not more
  #32  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:27:51 PM
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...This is the forum who suddenly wants fewer people, not more
No, that's not it at all. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that you want there to be one less user considering how you've been acting.
  #33  
Old July 14, 2011, 04:56:47 PM
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hmm... sounds a little rough. But it certainly makes me want to respect the rules even more.
  #34  
Old July 14, 2011, 05:14:02 PM
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hmm... sounds a little rough. But it certainly makes me want to respect the rules even more.
If anything it's just another step between a warning and being banned, I don't see how it'd seem any more menacing then before.
  #35  
Old July 14, 2011, 05:23:34 PM
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I think I'm more so afraid of a Mod abusing it. Although I haven't exactly seen an incident in this site where a mod actually abused their power. I guess I have nothing to worry about. I haven't got an infraction yet and I plan to keep it that way, thank you! ^_^
  #36  
Old July 14, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Nytz View Post
I think I'm more so afraid of a Mod abusing it. Although I haven't exactly seen an incident in this site where a mod actually abused their power. I guess I have nothing to worry about. I haven't got an infraction yet and I plan to keep it that way, thank you! ^_^
look in the /b/uizel archives and you'll see edits by a former moderator and former admin.
  #37  
Old July 15, 2011, 02:43:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nytz View Post
I think I'm more so afraid of a Mod abusing it. Although I haven't exactly seen an incident in this site where a mod actually abused their power. I guess I have nothing to worry about. I haven't got an infraction yet and I plan to keep it that way, thank you! ^_^
  • Jared
  • FreezeWarp
  • Cat333Pokémon
  • LiteTheIronMan
  • Some guy who had Pikachu in his name (I forget)
  • Some might argue JC, Randoguy, OMGITSJAD (I dunno, I can't look anything up for those three )

That's the friggin' short list. That said, you're not one who is most likely on the bad side of anybody, so I wouldn't worry

Edit: I think I also saw Ningamer play Hocus Pocus in Glitch City a couple of days ago (which was by-and-large the same criterion I used for Jared).

Last edited by FreezeWarp; July 15, 2011 at 02:44:36 AM.
  #38  
Old July 15, 2011, 05:50:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreezeWarp View Post
Edit: I think I also saw Ningamer play Hocus Pocus in Glitch City a couple of days ago (which was by-and-large the same criterion I used for Jared).
It's all in good spirit though! I'm fairly certain none of our current staff would ever abuse their powers to upset someone or to be mean to them. And should that happen a demotion is just a few clicks away.

(On a side-note, I don't encourage this "Hocus Pocus" and I won't do it again. I was feeling especially playful and hyper :3)

Last edited by Ningamer; July 15, 2011 at 05:53:47 AM.
  #39  
Old July 15, 2011, 05:56:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ningamer View Post
It's all in good spirit though! I'm fairly certain none of our current staff would ever abuse their powers to upset someone or to be mean to them. And should that happen a demotion is just a few clicks away.

(On a side-note, I don't encourage this "Hocus Pocus" and I won't do it again. I was feeling especially playful and hyper :3)
Hey, I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just that we've all done it

(And, for the most part, it isn't bad.)
  #40  
Old July 15, 2011, 06:02:41 AM
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Hey, I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just that we've all done it

(And, for the most part, it isn't bad.)
I know, but I do vaguely remember a rule (Might've been one of the old /b/uizel rules) telling us to not edit posts. Don't know where that's gone.
  #41  
Old July 15, 2011, 06:17:33 AM
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I know, but I do vaguely remember a rule (Might've been one of the old /b/uizel rules) telling us to not edit posts. Don't know where that's gone.
That rule has now been restored.
  #42  
Old July 15, 2011, 07:36:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FreezeWarp View Post
  • Jared
  • FreezeWarp
  • Cat333Pokémon
  • LiteTheIronMan
  • Some guy who had Pikachu in his name (I forget)
  • Some might argue JC, Randoguy, OMGITSJAD (I dunno, I can't look anything up for those three )

That's the friggin' short list. That said, you're not one who is most likely on the bad side of anybody, so I wouldn't worry

Edit: I think I also saw Ningamer play Hocus Pocus in Glitch City a couple of days ago (which was by-and-large the same criterion I used for Jared).
Well, now I'm not... I remember back in Zam I used to get on your nerves on purpose... XD But that was a side of me that I hope is gone now. Besides, Zam had a lot of issues with abusers... which is why I'm so paranoid even now...
  #43  
Old July 15, 2011, 07:47:50 AM
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Don't worry. I'm making sure this place doesn't end up like Zam.
  #44  
Old July 15, 2011, 08:05:58 AM
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Thanks. I hope it doesn't because I already grew loyal to the members here and fond of the site itself. I don't hang out in the VRIM Chat much, but I do hang out in the forums a lot. I set up a foundation within the forums and the social groups that I didn't think would even work at first, since it didn't work in any other site I've been to except for here. One of the reasons I love it here is for that reason. Team Lunacy finally is born, and the birthplace is VR. I would hate for it to become like Zam, no offense to any who was from Zam... cause that's like criticizing myself. I conclude saying to all the mods here, I respect you all, and keep up the good work. I will do my part as well through my clan and with the help of my friends I made here, we will bring more members here, or at least keep the members interested in being here. Thank you.

~Nytz~
  #45  
Old July 15, 2011, 10:53:27 AM
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I only abused such power with Rando, JAD, and anybody else that trolled me...
  #46  
Old July 15, 2011, 01:21:42 PM
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I'm really glad to see increased rule enforcement through this way. You guys did a lot of work while I was absent, and the end product sounds theoretically great to me. Ignoring the fact that 2 points is a little too low (in my opinion), I'm optimistic about how this will work out.

(P.S: I'll provide a detailed feedback once I return, hopefully.)
  #47  
Old July 15, 2011, 02:25:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
I only abused such power with Rando, JAD, and anybody else that trolled me...
Your job as a mod is to enforce the rules
If you can't abide by them yourself, you're not fit to enforce them.

If someone is trolling you, you must deal with them accordingly and as you would if they were trolling anyone else. Besides, abusing the rules to get back at someone trolling you is essentially counter-trolling, which only instigates more trolling out of them seeing as they got a reaction out of you.
  #48  
Old July 15, 2011, 02:31:15 PM
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Yeah, 2 points is too low and there's too much of a gap between purgatory and ban.
  #49  
Old July 15, 2011, 03:06:39 PM
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I'll just toss in my own two heavily moderated cents

I like the idea to have infractions cause bans at a certain level, and I certainly feel 5 point is a good limit considering how few infractions are handed out around here.

Purgatory, however, is just silly. You're basically just censoring users after one or two infractions, but making it seem less drastic by not banning the user. In the end however, it's the same effect as a ban. The user is censored for a set amount of time and loses certain privileges.

To repeat, I entirely understand the point of purgatory. I just think it's weird to have a "middle ground" between regular users and banned users, as while it does the same things a ban does, it doesn't follow the essential part of bans; the user in purgatory will keep posting, and will probably keep posting as they were before they were infracted. The point of a punishment is to prevent bad behavior, but purgatory is just hiding bad behavior.

So yeah, Swampy away.
  #50  
Old July 15, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WherewolfTherewolf View Post
Your job as a mod is to enforce the rules
If you can't abide by them yourself, you're not fit to enforce them.

If someone is trolling you, you must deal with them accordingly and as you would if they were trolling anyone else. Besides, abusing the rules to get back at someone trolling you is essentially counter-trolling, which only instigates more trolling out of them seeing as they got a reaction out of you.
To add onto this, a good countertroll will ignore the troll and simply troll back. Although this is rule-breaking in a sense it's worked for me in the past in dealing with trolls. A moderator/counter-troll shouldn't power-abuse to troll other members however.

...What're you all looking at

ALSO ANOTHER EDIT because I saw one of ICEE's posts

I don't think I count as power-abusive.

...

...

... >_>

Last edited by LiteTheIronMan; July 15, 2011 at 04:11:43 PM. Reason: I wouldn't advise any current or future staff to abide by this though. I only get away with it cuz I'm the forum's bad cop
  #51  
Old July 15, 2011, 04:24:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
To add onto this, a good countertroll will ignore the troll and simply troll back. Although this is rule-breaking in a sense it's worked for me in the past in dealing with trolls. A moderator/counter-troll shouldn't power-abuse to troll other members however.
Isn't it lovely how this has become such a daring game of wits?

Last edited by LiteTheIronMan; July 15, 2011 at 04:43:31 PM. Reason: YOUR MOM'S A DARING GAME OF WITS!
  #52  
Old July 15, 2011, 04:36:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreezeWarp View Post
Isn't it lovely how this has become such a daring game of wits?
it actually makes me want to troll more, so there's that
  #53  
Old July 17, 2011, 01:38:11 PM
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Ok, sorry to be such a noob but, I never got what "Troll" Meant... Can someone tell me?
  #54  
Old July 17, 2011, 01:39:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOMxTRAINER View Post
Ok, sorry to be such a noob but, I never got what "Troll" Meant... Can someone tell me?
You know when LQ and I call you a dolt?

It's sort of like that, except a bit worse.
  #55  
Old July 17, 2011, 01:41:21 PM
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I dont think i understand yet...

EDIT: Are you just posting to call me a dolt? If so, backoff. Lol

Last edited by PHANTOMxTRAINER; July 17, 2011 at 01:41:51 PM.
  #56  
Old July 17, 2011, 01:52:48 PM
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...



Ok maybe urbandictionary will help

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
  #57  
Old July 17, 2011, 05:57:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaredvcxz View Post
We've been giving everyone a free pass to do virtually whatever they want for the past three years.

...except me ;-;
  #58  
Old July 17, 2011, 06:04:58 PM
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lol that's because you're the one that did all the trolling and **** before we all went soft
  #59  
Old July 17, 2011, 06:13:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues View Post
...except me ;-;
We love you, Blues, and we want you to grow to the best of your potential.
  #60  
Old July 19, 2011, 06:27:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteTheIronMan View Post
lol that's because you're the one that did all the trolling and **** before we all went soft
"we"? lol

More like Yoshi.

And he never went soft on me. D:







That's what she said. D:
  #61  
Old July 20, 2011, 06:36:55 AM
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It's amazing what this thread has become.
  #62  
Old July 20, 2011, 06:44:46 AM
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This is VR. You honestly expected it to stay on topic?
  #63  
Old July 20, 2011, 02:50:10 PM
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One question. Can you post youtube videos here? I know this place is strict on stuff from other sites so that's why I ask.
  #64  
Old July 20, 2011, 02:53:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytz View Post
One question. Can you post youtube videos here? I know this place is strict on stuff from other sites so that's why I ask.
I think so, but as long as your not advertising. I may not be the one to answer though, but that is what i think the answer to your question is.
  #65  
Old July 20, 2011, 02:54:43 PM
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Youtube videos are perfectly fine as long as they abide by the rules.
  #66  
Old July 20, 2011, 02:55:58 PM
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Oh. Nah, I ain't advertising. But should I do something wrong, please warn me before infracting me, Mods, Admins. And I would never post anything inappropriate.
  #67  
Old July 20, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
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Yes, I am sure they will Warn you first, then infract you next time you do something wrong.
  #68  
Old July 20, 2011, 04:57:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOMxTRAINER View Post
Yes, I am sure they will Warn you first, then infract you next time you do something wrong.
That is not anything like what happened to me

D:
  #69  
Old July 20, 2011, 05:18:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RK-9 View Post
That is not anything like what happened to me

D:
You've had only one infraction in your time here. Before that you had three warnings, one of which should have been an infraction. Take your pity story elsewhere.
  #70  
Old July 20, 2011, 06:25:41 PM
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They were all for random things not related to this inf

also they were during the period I acted like an idiot
  #71  
Old July 20, 2011, 07:36:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RK-9 View Post
also they were during the period I acted like an idiot
I wonder why you received them then
  #72  
Old July 21, 2011, 04:57:52 AM
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who are you to complain RK

I've had more infractions than warnings

and only one of them was when I was acting like an idiot
  #73  
Old July 21, 2011, 05:00:16 AM
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"My infractions are more unfair than your infractions"
  #74  
Old July 21, 2011, 08:37:28 AM
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I work on reports. If someone does something wrong, please report it (the [!] icon in the top right corner of a post, or via PM). Don't go complaining because the moderators miss something. This is a large site, and staff can overlook things.
  #75  
Old July 21, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
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Actually, I'm suprised this isn't locked yet. I think the point has been made, but hey, what do I know? *Shrugs*
  #76  
Old July 21, 2011, 11:15:30 AM
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*close*

Oh, wait. I'm not a mod. *sighs*
  #77  
Old July 21, 2011, 11:20:18 AM
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Go ask a mod then. Then the mod will close it with their epic powers.
  #78  
Old July 21, 2011, 11:37:19 AM
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well, I was just sayin... I mean, it's up to the mods, for real.
  #79  
Old July 21, 2011, 11:57:44 AM
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The amount of off-topic is just asking for a lock, really.
 
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