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  #1  
Old August 14, 2014, 04:23:29 AM
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Default Do we really only live once?

I'd like to give my answer to a question that troubles a lot of people, especially when they feel uncertain about their lives and destiny:

"Do we really only live once?"

A lot of people I know would say yes, but only because they never really took the time to think deeply on it. Where did they get this idea that once you're dead, that's it, you cease to exist? Whatever source it originated from, I'm sending it back and forming a new belief about life and death.

I have no way of proving this theory of mine to be true. I'm not a scientist, a theologian, nor am I inclined towards either. But I do listen to my heart, and my heart tells me this:

Life as we know it is relatively short. People come and people go but we have no way of knowing when our time starts or when it ends. We could die 50 years into the future or tomorrow. But is death the cessation of life or the gate between one life and another?

I think life and death are like day and night. I think we cycle between both. When we are born, we have a certain number of years to live in this thing we call a body. When we die, we depart and travel to another place to live.

I like to compare it to traveling. We check in, we stay for a while, and depending on what we learn during our visit, we may enjoy it or hate it. Then after we've finished our stay, we pack our bags and head off to another place and do the same thing.

Think of it like a never-ending saga. We can only see life as far as we've read the story of our lives. We write the stories. As we finish one, we transition into another, like a sequel.

We may lose our body, our physical heredity, our thoughts, memories, and experiences. Even our sense of conscious awareness may be shut off when we pass on for a while. But the one thing that we'll always have with us is our identity. Minecraft can be started and restarted over and over again, but in the end, it's still Minecraft. It can be modded, changed, even hacked to look like something completely different. But in the end, it's roots originate from Minecraft.

And here's the beautiful thing about it:

Our next life will always be better than the one we currently live, even if we screw it all up. There will always be good and bad in each life and sometimes it may seem more bad than good. But if we understand that this will always be a part of living, we can free ourselves from so much anguish and start living. Who knows, maybe life is so good on the other side that nobody wants to come back to this one and tell us what it's like? And the ones that are born into our world will be in for a real treat, considering where they may have come from.

It's this belief I hold to be true (at least for me) that allows me to enjoy life with all its ups and downs, allows me to work towards self-actualization and fulfillment as a human being, and gives me the peace of mind from knowing that death is never the finale of life, but the transition from one into the next.

What does all this mean?

I think we'll be fine after all.

I dunno about you guys, but I find this much easier to swallow than the possible cessation of my own existence. How about you?
  #2  
Old August 14, 2014, 06:04:32 PM
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Normally, I don't comment on these sorts of topics unless directly asked to do so, but I was incited by friend to at least give an input, so I guess I'll break my complacency. My biggest issue with these sorts of questions lies in the most common conclusion: a religious debate. I myself am a Christian, and, no, I'm not here to force my beliefs on anyone. In my own view, we do not live once, we live eternally, first in the spirit-occupied flesh, then in an eternal, spiritual realm, whether of eternal torture, Hell, or eternal life, Heaven. How you get to either is a matter of how you live your life. (If anyone is curious on how that happens, just message me, I'd be happy to discuss).

The thing about this existence and why I believe the way I do is attributable to an approached idea of how the universe works. In essence, we exist in a reality composed of three basic items: matter, space, and time. Matter is all of the physical "stuff" in our universe. Air, animals, rocks, the sun, energy, all of it is matter and it's always the same amount, from the beginning of our universe to now and until forever. It's the infinity concept. The First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy (matter) is never created or destroyed, it is simply transferred. As in you can't destroy matter, so the same matter from ten thousand years ago is the same matter that is here today and tomorrow and forever. Then we have space, the essentially infinite area in which matter exists. Space is basically where matter ISN'T, and therefore also infinite since it must accommodate for the ever-expanding property of matter, as we've observed since the earliest recorder time. Which brings me to the final piece, time. Time is the measure of the existence of both matter and space. So matter and space both exist in time.

To sum up the second paragraph, matter, space, and time are all equally infinite. All rely on one another to physically exist, and none can exist without the other. But the idea of infinity doesn't make physical sense. How can you have infinity of something? How big is infinity? The answers to both questions are impossible, infinity is not so much a thing as it is a concept. The highest level of thinking achievable in our reality. So the problem with it lies in how it can actually exist, considering the fact that matter, space, and time are all infinite and thereby embody a something which is hypothetically impossible.

The easiest answer is to dismiss it, accepting it for what it is and allowing the fact that infinity is the highest level of thinking possible in our universe to suffice for an impossible, real thing. But what if the answer for our infinite trio exists outside of our reality? In a reality wherein the infinite is explained, where there exists a thing, or concept, or whatever that explains the infinite?

Think about math in gradeschool. When you were in algebra, I'm sure you may have wondered what the point of learning slopes was. You may have even asked the teacher, to which he or she would reply, "You'll learn in calculus" (or whatever later course was to come). In the moment, slopes made no applicable sense aside from predicting how many cattle would be in a farm if they multiplied at a rate of 2 per day after twelve days, yet all along, calculus would be able to prove that slopes would in turn relate to derivatives and then integrals and then areas under slopes and so on, but at the time, you couldn't comprehend it.

That's how I see our universe. We live in the algebra. We don't know why, or how infinity is possible or even exists, yet somewhere outside of our reality, there exists a higher reality, in which the infinite is explained. Explained by something which transcends the infinite. It's at this point that things become even more impossible to discuss. Mathematics does prove that there are other dimensions. When you calculate triple integrals you are essentially calculating the volume of a four dimensions object. The same applies for a quadruple integral in which you calculate the volume of a five dimensional object. This goes on infinitely (lol) but proves that there are other dimensions, an infinite amount of them in fact.

Now whatever that "thing" is that exists outside of our reality is up to personal ideas. In my belief, I call it God. You may call it the flying spaghetti monster or it may be turtles, but it does exist. There has to be something beyond our concept of infinity for infinity to even exist considering it doesn't make physical sense.

Yet you could argue that there is something beyond that thing which is beyond infinity and so on, infinitely, but to assume any more than a thing which transcends infinity when our highest level of conceptual thinking ends at infinity is impossible. You can't apply our reality's laws to a thing transcending them. It exists outside, in dominion over us and everything in our existence.

So what's the point of all this? I don't know, I figure I'd add my input and give, what I believe is, a theoretically rational application of what we know to validate the idea that we live more than just in the physical sense of existence, the day-to-day stuff. It's kind of scary in the end, since we don't know what the "thing" is exactly, but from the aforementioned, I believe it's entirely rational to deduce that such a "thing" exists, and whatever it is, I believe our existence in THIS reality will translate to an existence in "it's" reality.
  #3  
Old August 14, 2014, 11:15:04 PM
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I agree with the Brofessor that we should try to stop this from being a religious debate (because they can get quite nasty).

I'm not religious, and don't believe in heaven or hell for the reason that there is no evidence other than a 2000 year old book riddled with inconsistencies and scientific impossibilities. For the same reason I don't believe in any other afterlife, there is no evidence to support it.

I understand that the concept of an afterlife in some form can be comforting for people. The knowledge than when they die it isn't the end is a very nice thought. What I hear a lot of people say is that they can't imagine not being around after they die, but I just think they aren't trying hard enough. You are absent from the entirety of human history before you are born, then absent from the rest of it when you're dead. Your long term effect on the human race is so tiny and insignificant to everybody else.

I know this is a depressing thought, but this is just based on what we can observe and what we know for a fact. Don't get me wrong, i'd love there to be an afterlife and i'd love there to be a god. The world would be a better and more relaxed place to be. But I just cannot see any rational reason to believe in either.

Sorry for depressing you all :/
-Pyro
  #4  
Old August 15, 2014, 04:17:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
I agree with the Brofessor that we should try to stop this from being a religious debate (because they can get quite nasty).

I'm not religious, and don't believe in heaven or hell for the reason that there is no evidence other than a 2000 year old book riddled with inconsistencies and scientific impossibilities. For the same reason I don't believe in any other afterlife, there is no evidence to support it.

I understand that the concept of an afterlife in some form can be comforting for people. The knowledge than when they die it isn't the end is a very nice thought. What I hear a lot of people say is that they can't imagine not being around after they die, but I just think they aren't trying hard enough. You are absent from the entirety of human history before you are born, then absent from the rest of it when you're dead. Your long term effect on the human race is so tiny and insignificant to everybody else.

I know this is a depressing thought, but this is just based on what we can observe and what we know for a fact. Don't get me wrong, i'd love there to be an afterlife and i'd love there to be a god. The world would be a better and more relaxed place to be. But I just cannot see any rational reason to believe in either.

Sorry for depressing you all :/
-Pyro
Pyro, 3 major problems with what you said:

1: We can't trust everything we see, and our observations only tell us so much about what's true for reality.

2: A lot of things we know to be facts are often false and sometimes deliberate lies.

Everybody used to think the Earth was flat. Everybody used to believe you couldn't run a mile in 4 minutes. Everybody was absolutely convinced that you couldn't fly an airplane. All of those things we once knew to be facts were proven wrong, and more examples of that are happening every day.

3: A person's long term effect on the human race can be critical and enough to change the course of history forever. All the major changes we've had over the years came from people who were once thought of as insignificant.
  #5  
Old August 15, 2014, 08:00:06 AM
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Like the Brofessor, I am religous as well. I am of the Catholic faith. However, when it comes to the after life, I like to take a more simplistic approach. As the Brofessor mentioned, for Infinity to become quantitative as apposed to qualitative, there must be something greater than us to exist outside of our reality. Even many scientists will agree with that one. So to avoid such a depressing outlook, I like to believe in an afterlife where we get to learn more about whatever "thing" exists outside of our realm of being. I would like to believe it is like Heaven, but you may make it out to be whatever your imagination desires. Think about it this way. You have nothing to lose in believing in an afterlife. You will be more motivated to do good during your time on Earth and if you die and there turns out to be no afterlife then you wont be disappointed because your existence has ceased! So even if you struggle hard to believe in any sort of afterlife, just remember that you have nothing to lose!
  #6  
Old August 15, 2014, 08:33:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Armed Floatzel View Post
2: A lot of things we know to be facts are often false and sometimes deliberate lies.

Everybody used to think the Earth was flat. Everybody used to believe you couldn't run a mile in 4 minutes. Everybody was absolutely convinced that you couldn't fly an airplane. All of those things we once knew to be facts were proven wrong, and more examples of that are happening every day.
Nowadays we have a much more complete understanding of what is true and false. And with time that understanding can only get better. You may be completely right about an afterlife existing, but with the current evidence we have now, there is no proof of one. Until it is proven (or at least presented with a convincing argument) , I can't believe in an afterlife.
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Old August 15, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
Nowadays we have a much more complete understanding of what is true and false. And with time that understanding can only get better. You may be completely right about an afterlife existing, but with the current evidence we have now, there is no proof of one. Until it is proven (or at least presented with a convincing argument) , I can't believe in an afterlife.
Well what proof is there that there isnt one? Thats my point. When it is completely 50/50, why not go with the belief that is much more comforting? That is my simplistic reasoning.
  #8  
Old August 15, 2014, 08:57:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
I agree with the Brofessor that we should try to stop this from being a religious debate (because they can get quite nasty).

I'm not religious, and don't believe in heaven or hell for the reason that there is no evidence other than a 2000 year old book riddled with inconsistencies and scientific impossibilities. For the same reason I don't believe in any other afterlife, there is no evidence to support it.
-Pyro
I don't believe this fits into the agreement.
  #9  
Old August 15, 2014, 09:31:25 AM
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I don't believe this fits into the agreement.
But it's true :/
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:32:19 AM
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Well what proof is there that there isnt one? Thats my point. When it is completely 50/50, why not go with the belief that is much more comforting? That is my simplistic reasoning.
By the same token, what proof is there that there isn't a flying spaghetti monster. You can't disprove either.
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:57:11 AM
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By the same token, what proof is there that there isn't a flying spaghetti monster. You can't disprove either.
You are further proving my point. It is a complete guess as to what is actually out there, but when we know there is in fact something, why not choose to believe in a more positive idea?
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Old August 15, 2014, 10:18:04 AM
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I agree! But, hang on really quick for I've a question!

I assume you take that being a spirit on the Earth still counts as an afterlife, so this probably won't be too complex for you to answer, but what you take on "ghosts?" I'm a person that is very sensing, so I only judge based on my senses, however, spirits that roam the Earth are visible and invisible, correct? I don't think they're categorized in any sort of matter besides perhaps "anti-matter", no? Anyways, I'm also a person of balance. I don't dismiss the existence of Heaven or Hell due to the presence of spirits in our current world. If you deny Heaven and Hell, you deny the obvious roaming of spirits in our world. What's everyone's take on that? I'm curious. I'm sure some of us have had a supernatural experience of some sort and I'm not talking about adrenaline.
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Old August 15, 2014, 10:48:35 AM
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In regards to Sub-Zero's question, my knowledge regarding anti matter is that it technically is matter, as in it stems from the same matter constant in our universe but varies in charge and property, not necessarily the "stuff" composing spirits or whatever.

In regards to spirits or ghosts, my answer would be that they're of the higher reality in which the infinity transcendent exists. Their properties and physics go beyond that of our own reality and therefore do not need to comply with the laws of our reality, seeing as they are beyond them.

Think of our reality as a bowl. The higher reality is the potter which created the bowl. All things the potter does in regards to the bowl is possible for both him and the bowl. But in the case of the bowl, it cannot comply with all things the potter does. The bowl can hold things, it can exist, yet it cannot create. The potter, however, can hold things, exist AND create. In this sense, the potter can do all things in the bowl's reality but not vice versa.

This would be my application to the reality beyond our own in regards to our reality. So spirits, or ghosts, or demons, or whatever outwardly being that interacts with our reality.
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Old August 15, 2014, 10:52:18 AM
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You are further proving my point. It is a complete guess as to what is actually out there, but when we know there is in fact something, why not choose to believe in a more positive idea?
What I was trying to say was that because you can't disprove an afterlife or a flying spaghetti monster, they are equally likely to exist.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:05:28 AM
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What I was trying to say was that because you can't disprove an afterlife or a flying spaghetti monster, they are equally likely to exist.
I understand exactly what you are saying! Because they are equally likely to exist, why believe something depressing instead of something happy?
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:07:32 AM
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But it's true :/
The problem I have with your response is that I'm unsure of your motives. While clearly stating you have interests to avoid debate, you've cited your disagreement with what I assume to be the Christian religion in a derogatory manner. Seeing as you're entitled to your opinion, I have no issue with your disagreement, yet to do so in such a way is both unnecessary as well as contradictory to your aforementioned outlook on this thread.

To state it as being "true" is a bold, misguided assertion. In any such matter, there is no definitive "truth." You may claim science fails to support it. I would claim that the infinity transcendent God made it possible through higher abilities in a dimension beyond our own. You may claim that it's inconsistent. I would claim that it refers to later times.

Approaching this subject with a definitive idea is impossible. There is no quantitative evidence for any of it. This is a matter of personal experience, theoretical speculation and faith.

I will, however, support my original assertion, seeing as it is the most scientifically rational stance I can find. I enjoy scientific accreditation for things, but in this manner you cannot have one.

If you're just trolling me to argue then I hope my response doesn't feed into it too much. I'd like to keep things civil.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:16:03 AM
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I understand exactly what you are saying! Because they are equally likely to exist, why believe something depressing instead of something happy?
Because the depressing thing is logical. When you die, your brain no longer works and you are permanently without consciousness, we already know this. The belief that there is an afterlife is based on guesswork and wishing.

I'm not saying that I would rather there be nothing than something, in fact I would love to discover an afterlife after I die, but wanting something to exist and actually believing something exists is very different.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:21:47 AM
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Originally Posted by The Brofessor View Post
The problem I have with your response is that I'm unsure of your motives. While clearly stating you have interests to avoid debate, you've cited your disagreement with what I assume to be the Christian religion in a derogatory manner. Seeing as you're entitled to your opinion, I have no issue with your disagreement, yet to do so in such a way is both unnecessary as well as contradictory to your aforementioned outlook on this thread.

To state it as being "true" is a bold, misguided assertion. In any such matter, there is no definitive "truth." You may claim science fails to support it. I would claim that the infinity transcendent God made it possible through higher abilities in a dimension beyond our own. You may claim that it's inconsistent. I would claim that it refers to later times.

Approaching this subject with a definitive idea is impossible. There is no quantitative evidence for any of it. This is a matter of personal experience, theoretical speculation and faith.

I will, however, support my original assertion, seeing as it is the most scientifically rational stance I can find. I enjoy scientific accreditation for things, but in this manner you cannot have one.

If you're just trolling me to argue then I hope my response doesn't feed into it too much. I'd like to keep things civil.
I'm not trying to troll you into arguing and I'm very sorry if what i said made it seem like I was. I was just making a point that because I think that the bible is inconsistent, the reliability of it's teachings has to be called into question. You aren't wrong for believing in what the bible says because most of it cannot be proven or disproven.

Last edited by CinnabarPyro; August 15, 2014 at 11:22:25 AM.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:35:06 AM
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Originally Posted by The Brofessor View Post
In regards to Sub-Zero's question, my knowledge regarding anti matter is that it technically is matter, as in it stems from the same matter constant in our universe but varies in charge and property, not necessarily the "stuff" composing spirits or whatever.

In regards to spirits or ghosts, my answer would be that they're of the higher reality in which the infinity transcendent exists. Their properties and physics go beyond that of our own reality and therefore do not need to comply with the laws of our reality, seeing as they are beyond them.

Think of our reality as a bowl. The higher reality is the potter which created the bowl. All things the potter does in regards to the bowl is possible for both him and the bowl. But in the case of the bowl, it cannot comply with all things the potter does. The bowl can hold things, it can exist, yet it cannot create. The potter, however, can hold things, exist AND create. In this sense, the potter can do all things in the bowl's reality but not vice versa.

This would be my application to the reality beyond our own in regards to our reality. So spirits, or ghosts, or demons, or whatever outwardly being that interacts with our reality.
I see what you mean there, buddy. Interesting stuff! Nice reading your input about everything and all. Have a nice day!

Pyro, coming from a person who only believes in what can be sensed, there are things that are not detectable by our senses. It's an uncertainty that should be accepted and neither of us can provide a solid answer. Accept it how it is and let it go. Just worry about living your life to it's fullest and making the best of it for yourself and those around you.
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Old August 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM
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Pyro, coming from a person who only believes in what can be sensed, there are things that are not detectable by our senses. It's an uncertainty that should be accepted and neither of us can provide a solid answer. Accept it how it is and let it go. Just worry about living your life to it's fullest and making the best of it for yourself and those around you.
It's very true that whether there's an afterlife or not is an uncertainty, but i think it is very unlikely as well. That was the point of my message.

I also think that a belief that there is no afterlife make you treasure life more. Life becomes more precious because it is limited, and you want to go out and do more things because of your limited time on the Earth.

If I can say at the end of my life that I've enjoyed my time here I will consider it a victory.
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Old August 15, 2014, 02:52:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
It's very true that whether there's an afterlife or not is an uncertainty, but i think it is very unlikely as well. That was the point of my message.

I also think that a belief that there is no afterlife make you treasure life more. Life becomes more precious because it is limited, and you want to go out and do more things because of your limited time on the Earth.

If I can say at the end of my life that I've enjoyed my time here I will consider it a victory.
I like most of that idea Pyro. HOWEVER, if I didnt believe in an afterlife, I would be more inclined to enjoy life rather than be the best person I could be. I probably would not go out of my way to perform as many good deeds as I do or at least try to. I would live life selfishly and only do what I wanted to do, possibly even rebelling. Truthfully that is not my nature but it is easy to see why someone could think that way if they did not velieve in an afterlife. Believing in one keeps you in line which enhances the quality of life.
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Old August 15, 2014, 03:03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
What I was trying to say was that because you can't disprove an afterlife or a flying spaghetti monster, they are equally likely to exist.
I think this might interest some of you : )

Anyhow, this thread really exploded since I saw it a little while ago. Don't have time to read everyone's replies, at least not right now, but my for own three cents it really doesn't matter. If I've lived before, I sure can't remember any of it and it really doesn't matter to me much at all. I'd rather focus on things like dealing with now, and the near future.

(Also, if you're interested in religious debate, I'm kind of waiting for someone to kick-start this thread again :^) )

Last edited by Dragonite; August 15, 2014 at 03:04:08 PM.
  #23  
Old August 15, 2014, 10:47:23 PM
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I think this might interest some of you : )

Anyhow, this thread really exploded since I saw it a little while ago. Don't have time to read everyone's replies, at least not right now, but my for own three cents it really doesn't matter. If I've lived before, I sure can't remember any of it and it really doesn't matter to me much at all. I'd rather focus on things like dealing with now, and the near future.

(Also, if you're interested in religious debate, I'm kind of waiting for someone to kick-start this thread again :^) )
I wouldn't want to be the one to kick start it again but if someone did I may join in.

Also, Schrödinger's cat implies you knew there was a cat in the first place. To treat an afterlife like Schrödinger's cat would be like this: "I know that there is an afterlife, but I don't know whether it's still there or not"
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:23:24 PM
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Not so. Cat, rabbit, me, astronaut, doesn't matter. Point is, we're concerned if it's still alive or not. Likewise, all we're concerned if it exists or not. Exactly one of two states is true, "yes" or "no," and since we don't know . . . they're both true.

I am such a nerd for discussing the semantics of Schrodinger's cat at 2:30 AM.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:44:00 PM
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I am such a nerd for discussing the semantics of Schrodinger's cat at 2:30 AM.
This made me crack up XD
  #26  
Old August 17, 2014, 05:36:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnabarPyro View Post
It's very true that whether there's an afterlife or not is an uncertainty, but i think it is very unlikely as well. That was the point of my message.

I also think that a belief that there is no afterlife make you treasure life more. Life becomes more precious because it is limited, and you want to go out and do more things because of your limited time on the Earth.

If I can say at the end of my life that I've enjoyed my time here I will consider it a victory.
Well, that could be turned either way. The lack of reliable proof that there is a afterlife and the lack of proof that their isn't. In my honest opinion, it doesn't matter. Live your moment now and enjoy yourself here as you are now. That's all. There's no point in wondering what'll happen afterwords. That'll come.
  #27  
Old September 29, 2014, 10:51:34 PM
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Dragonite Dragonite is offline
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I started thinking about this for no real reason today. The idea of your consciousness not existing at all is just weird. When you sleep, you either dream or perceive waking up immediately. When you die, you . . . don't. You're essentially asleep forever. It's like dividing your life by zero. What happens? The concept of heaven or some other afterlife or reincarnation was invented, as I understand it, because people imagined there had to be something next. Things like watching the world in Minecraft Spectator or something are all based on senses we have because of human biology, and unless there is a God with very specific intentions for us we won't have access to any of that.

What if there isn't anything? It's weird when you think about it.

Afternote: some of you may find this interesting. Is he making it up? That's impossible to prove, but the concept is interesting.
 
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